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Wikipedia is blacklisted in Russia
- marinintim 11y agoApprox. 30% of Russian internet providers will block Wikipedia.org entirely, because Wikipedia.org use HTTPS (and Deep Package Inspection is too damn costly). Runet, as usual, is full of tragedy jokes: [lang=ru] https://tjournal.ru/p/rkn-wikipedia-block-bloggers https://tjournal.ru/p/rkn-wikipedia-block-bloggers
- guard-of-terra 11y agoDeep Packet Inspection won't help you versus HTTPS (unless you're CIA and have crypto backdoors).
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- socceroos 11y agoOr the private keys to a tonne of Certs from the cert authorities. The massive elephant in the room is the cert authorities..
- QUFB 11y agoNot for long, the Wikimedia Foundation intends to implement HPKP: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92002 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92002
- drdaeman 11y agoCA private key won't help classic (passive) DPI systems. You have to perform active MITM attack. And if anyone's aware of any ISP anywhere in the world, doing a MITM with a certificate that passes validation, they should really shout about this as loud as they can (or at least whisper to someone who can shout), because it concerns virtually everyone on the Internet.
- schoen 11y agoThis is apparently an order from the Russian government to individual ISPs. Do you think the individual ISPs have the ability (and desire) to issue fake certs from compromised root CAs to MITM Wikipedia connections? The question in this case is not whether some CA is compromised or malicious, but whether the entities involved have access to such a CA and are willing to use that access. Also, a very wide-scale HTTPS MITM is more likely every month to be detected because there are more and more people looking for it. That may not be true of small-scale MITMs for some time, but it's probably true, for example, for a large-country-wide attack against a major site -- especially a site used by lots of technically sophisticated people who've been given prior warning that something sketchy is going to happen on a particular date!
- drdaeman 11y agoThe use of "DPI" is frequently has a buzzword-like nature, which could mean literally anything from real DPI to transparent and semi-transparent HTTP proxies and sometimes even DNS spoofing techniques. The bad thing is that some ISPs MITM (with obviously invalid self-signed certificate, not even matching CN/DN of the domain being proxied) instead of completely dropping all tcp/443 traffic. Not that it's bad intent to try to provide access to the non-blacklisted pages, but it's an absolutely harmful practice of teaching users to click the knobs "aw, ignore those errors, I want to read the site".
- osipov 11y agoThis has already happened with github, reddit, and several other lesser known sites. In all those cases access was restored very quickly, within hours/days, as soon as site admins complied with the Russian law. What's different this time?
- guard-of-terra 11y agoWikipedia is non-profit, chance it's not going to cave.
- r721 11y agoBuzzfeed has Wikimedia Foundation's full statement (in the end of the article): http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/russia-says-its-banning-wikipedia http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/russia-says-its-banning-wi...
- nitrogen 11y agoIs there a list of the removals/alterations requested by the US government (and granted as indicated in the official statement)?
- SamReidHughes 11y agoThe statement says "U.S. law," it says nothing about requests by the U.S. government. Copyright, libel, etc.
- guard-of-terra 11y agoThat's because 'itty Russia is the 'upidest country. Seriously, being Russian, you kind of get used to the constant feeling of shame. Almost everything that happened to the country and people in the last 100 years provokes deep feeling of shame and helplessness.
- frozenport 11y agoOr when you turn on the TV.
- osipov 11y ago>being Russian, you kind of get used to the constant feeling of shame Ironically here's a Wikipedia article on things that Russians can be proud of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation
- guard-of-terra 11y agoWhy, I'm also ashamed about you. All that some-genuine-but-mostly-bullshit from the mentioned page dims before the conjecture that Russia was supposed to become 300-million-strong Denmark, and what we've got instead over the course of XX century is closer to 140-million-stong Nigeria in the snow. Real Nigeria, however, has much better demographic prospects. "Есть пустыни и вулканы, Острова и океаны. Только жизни нет, только жизни нет..."
- osipov 11y agoLuckly there are less than 10% of you in the Russian population despite how vocal you are. You'll never get support because your philosophy is one of hate and denial of what was and can be a great nation. You always have the option of moving to Kiev. I hear they are building a European nation in line with your Putin hating values.
- guard-of-terra 11y agoThere's just you and me here now, and that makes me 50%. Of course many people struggle to admit the miserable result of their whole lives, but the result is objectively miserable.
- dataker 11y agoI do find this to be disgusting, but I'd like to point out Wikipedia articles have become quite biased in the past years. If content was based on purely factual information and opinions were contrasted/highlighted, Russia would have a much harder time finding a suitable argument.
- drdaeman 11y agoDoesn't matter. Even if Wikipedia would be full of outright lies it still won't justify censorship and blocking. But considering your argument, now it at least makes sense why the Absurdopedia was blocked among the first sites, hah. /s
- osipov 11y ago>it still won't justify censorship and blocking do you deny countries the legal right to set their own limitations on free speech?
- tedunangst 11y agoThat is the prevailing attitude here, that there should not be any limitations.
- osipov 11y agoThose are our ideals but the reality is that countries have long restricted free speech. And each countries makes its own judgements and decisions on what kind of speech can and should be restricted. Personally I find "free speech zones" in the US disgusting.
- viraptor 11y agoThat's how reality works. Our ideals are that people don't murder each other. Even if they do, it's not a reason to throw away the concept and agree that some murdering is ok since people do it anyway. So yeah - free speech is a thing we should aim for. Some disrespect it more than others and Russia is definitely not a great example to follow.
- sologoub 11y agoTechcrunch missed a very interesting point about Roscomnadzors tactic here - they actually bothered to get a court order! [1] This is not something they normally do or, I think, are even required under the laws they tend to us in such cases. The sad part is that the way that legal regime works, they are following the letter of the law and the general populous is not likely to object, since the article covers content related to a controlled substance, and since Soviet times, controlled substances carry heavy stigma, especially among older generations. [1] http://m.lenta.ru/news/2015/08/24/wiki/ http://m.lenta.ru/news/2015/08/24/wiki/ (sorry in Russian)
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- osipov 11y agoThis is typical of the coverage we got with blocking of github and reddit. Very much a knee-jerk reaction with little understanding of the Russian laws and procedures. Of course, it is a mistake to expect otherwise. The problem is that an average reader will come away with an impression: "those backwards Russians are censoring the internet again!"
- hyperpape 11y agoI hope you realize we don't care whose laws they are--we regard that censorship as illegitimate. There's nationalism and chauvinism aplenty, but many of those you'll find criticizing Russia on this point frequently condemn our own governments when they veer into censorship.
- osipov 11y ago>we don't care whose laws they are--we regard that censorship as illegitimate who's we? regardless of who you are, your regard of censorship by Russians in Russia is illegitimate. you are a bystander passing judgement, you are not an elected representative of the Russian people. an elected government in Russia made laws establishing the legal process governing this situation. your opinion is interesting but ultimately irrelevant to the problem. those who live and vote in Russia and have a voice on this thread are far more relevant to the discussion than you are.
- trhway 11y agoso, Russia refused foreign food, foreign medical supplies (including contraception, Russian joke sites are boiling with it, and, this isn't a joke, Russian deputy prime minister and former Surgeon General of Russia publicly stated that it will help to solve Russian demographic problem, as if Russia needed to breed more stupids), and now foreign knowledge... There is no need for nuclear weapons to turn Russia into wilderness populated by savages... with savage leaders sporting $600K foreign watches. Very shiny...
- atorralb 11y agoin your order, they refused gmos, toxic vaccines, foreign knowledge
- guard-of-terra 11y agoToxic vaccines? Come on! Russia is actually having its own unique AIDS pandemy right now, contrary to the rest of the world who mostly figured that problem out. In Samara region, 3% of pregnant women are infected, scary isn't it? It's a pretty well developed area for the curious, not some obscure rural minority place.
- Asbostos 11y agoDrug making instructions are a gray area. Most countries have laws restricting what you're allowed to publish - and they're all a bit arbitrary and different. It sounds like Wikipedia is trying to push American values onto everyone else. Imagine if Wikipedia was based in a country that didn't respect copyright. Would people in America be upset that it was getting banned for hosting pirated content?
- cdash 11y agoPeople on this site certainly would not be that upset, that is for sure.
- guard-of-terra 11y agoI'll take American values over applying random norms to encyclopedia contents. Russian language speakers are not limited to Russia, there's tens of millions speakers in other countries. Wikipedia can't cave to demands from specific country. That is a road that will quickly lead to removal and censorship of any information not in line with what state TV in that country say, "or else".
- cdash 11y agoExcept all they have to do is block a single page from being viewed by people accessing the site with a certain ip range in order to comply.
- guard-of-terra 11y agoMoral arguments aside, what makes you think this will work? Tomorrow, some town judge in Zazhopinsk, Udmurtia (population 5000) will open this single page in some sort of anonymizer and will issue blocking orders on, in some order: Wikipedia, anonymizer, Internet Explorer. And yes, she will specifically search for such thing because she is promoted by the bulk of cases.
- viraptor 11y agoAmerican values? While I would agree in many cases of disputes about wikipedia content, this is not one of them. How is free and unrestricted access to information an American value?
- EiZei 11y agoIt looks like the Russian government find HN notable enough to unleash it's army of little internet commentators here.
- ttflee 11y agoFYI, Wikipedia for Chinese languages has been inaccessible for months in China.
- r721 11y agoIt has been removed now: https://github.com/zapret-info/z-i/commit/482f8014b15cb0ef1b5d05689f532e4aae95c0a2 https://github.com/zapret-info/z-i/commit/482f8014b15cb0ef1b... (3 hours ago) >-ru.wikipedia.org;https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%E0%F0%E0%F1; https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%E0%F0%E0%F1; So it was in the register for 8 hours.