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I would strongly recommend this 4 minute video to everyone on the issue: "Michael Crichton on Environmentalism as a Religion" - the video talks about how envir

I would strongly recommend this 4 minute video to everyone on the issue: "Michael Crichton on Environmentalism as a Religion" - the video talks about how environmentalism offers salvation and a complete belief structure for many people, but that the religion/faith aspect of it gets in the way of science. Regardless of your views on the environment, it might be insightful for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv9OSxTy1aU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv9OSxTy1aU As for China, I lived in China for a short time a few years back. I wasn't convinced at all that they're the next world power - the government and infrastructure were so far behind the West that I didn't think it'd happen. But watching how China adjusted when the U.S. banking sector fell apart last year has convinced me that they're going to the top. The American government printed a lot, which should make our U.S. Dollars fall relative to other currencies, including Chinese RMB. China in turn printed about the same amount of money and invested it into Chinese infrastructure and tax breaks for their businesses - driving the cost of Chinese goods even lower. They're building the same sort of infrastructure and industrialization that the United States did during the Cold War. They're also liberalizing and gradually loosening and eliminating central government while we're currently expanding the role of central government. Considering their population is three times larger, if the United States want to keep military parity with China over the next 30 years, they'll have to change their economic policies or they're going to go bankrupt. There's some difficult choices facing the USA soon - China is definitely on the rise. They face some hurdles - can they integrate and keep friendly the Cantonese, Xianjianese, Tibetans, Macanese, Taiwanese, and Hong Kongese to some extent into the primarily Mandarin Han government? The effects of the One Child Policy will be interesting to see - the gender imbalance and all. China breaking into Civil War is a very real possibility in the next 30-50 years, but if they don't, they're on the rise globally and will be the next world power.

mhartl 17y ago
environmentalism offers salvation and a complete belief structure for many people Environmentalism is but one piece, but you're right that we're dealing with a religion here. Moreover, the narrative of sin and redemption is not a coincidence: progressivism (including its environmentalism subset) is not metaphorically a religion; it is a real, living (nontheistic) religion,* the clear intellectual descendant of mainline ecumenical protestant Christianity. A century ago it was the WCTU and the YMCA; today it's NOW and Greenpeace. *If a nontheistic religion seems like a contradiction in terms, the problem is merely linguistic; English lacks a good word meaning "all religious beliefs minus the supernatural stuff". Whatever you call it, a nontheistic religion can't help but show its roots: a nontheistic sect of Hinduism, for example, would still be identifiably Hindu, despite the absence of gods; it would likely lack a sin-redemption narrative, but would probably include some sort of caste system.
- GeoJawDguJin 17y ago
  I've seen some people use "myth" and "cult" to describe the theistic and worshipful aspects of religion, respectively. Unfortunately these words both have other, more common meanings with negative connotations, so using them in any sort of open discussion tends to raise some hackles.
  - lionhearted 17y ago
    > I've seen some people use "myth" and "cult" to describe the theistic and worshipful aspects of religion, respectively. Unfortunately these words both have other, more common meanings with negative connotations, so using them in any sort of open discussion tends to raise some hackles. Strongly agree - do you have opinions on good words? I'm currently using "mysticism", "ritual", and "canon", which are often used by religions themselves. They don't seem completely neutral though. I think this has the potential to be an area of language that changes quickly, so we all look ignorant in 50 years when our writings are read, similar to how the terms for different races have changed a lot. My grandmother is almost 90 and calls a man of Chinese descent a "Chinaman", and I have to say, "No Grandma, we don't say that any more." And she's got a bit of a sense of humor, and says, "I listen to the radio, and they say Irishman, but Chinaman is wrong?" And I don't know how to answer that, since the Irish got all sorts of hell in the States too, and Irishman used to be derogatory, but now it's not and it's okay usage. I think the words used to describe religion are likely going to go through that, and references to myth (bad), cult (bad), mysticism (okay), ritual (okay), canon (generally positive) might all be passed by other words.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  > Moreover, the narrative of sin and redemption is not a coincidence: progressivism (including its environmentalism subset) is not metaphorically a religion; it is a real, living (nontheistic) religion,* the clear intellectual descendant of mainline ecumenical protestant Christianity. I've heard that, but never found a reasonably objective source that references primary sources. I've read a couple pieces: The general gist I got is that North American Christianity split into two basic movements - Fundamentalist Christianity, which emphasized that the Bible was literal and the ancient rites were necessary to be followed, and Progressive Christianity, which said that the Bible was not literal and was more inclusive and open to discussion. But I've not found any primary or objective secondary sources on how this went - you sound knowledgeable, do you happen to know any? > If a nontheistic religion seems like a contradiction in terms, the problem is merely linguistic; English lacks a good word meaning "all religious beliefs minus the supernatural stuff". Yes, that I'm very aware of. I've traveled a lot, and you can clearly see that most non-religious people still inherited their basic religious beliefs of their culture. Very few people actively study ethics and come to independent decisions from their peer group - most people inherit their base ethics from their surroundings, and since religions were the way that most people got their ethics for a very long time now, it's mirrored quite well even in non-religious people. People with formerly Confucian surroundings tend to have a very strong family emphasis, which was a fundamental tenet of Confucianism. People with Jewish surroundings tend to get a very strong scholarly emphasis, at least partially descending from the heavy emphasis on Torah studies. Places that had a heavy Christian presence often are more ashamed about sex, pornography, and nudity than places like Africa and Japan which had did not have those same religious views on sex. The fastest growing religions in the world are nontheistic - this will enter common thought in the next 50-100 years as the power of formal religions continues to decrease and more nontheistic religions gain followers. And that's not a bad thing, but you still absolutely need to insulate public servants and scientists from their religious beliefs, lest they impose their morals on their science and law, thus leading to - well, most people are aware of the impact religion had on law and science throughout the ages. It's a little bit of a dangerous time now, because there's no separation of nontheistic churches and the state.
papersmith 17y ago
For a more comprehensive interview on Charlie Rose, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AA5aIdOqlw#t=22m3s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AA5aIdOqlw#t=22m3s
Luc 17y ago
Michael Crichton also got conned into believing in spoon bending. http://www.michaelcrichton.net/qa-travels.html http://www.michaelcrichton.net/qa-travels.html I have been to one of Jack Houck's spoon bending parties (which Crichton talks about), and as a result I just can't take anything he says seriously anymore. Anyone who goes to such a party with an open mind will have to conclude it's a load of baloney. Only those who really really want to believe in that crap will come out thinking there is something to it.
- wallflower 17y ago
  > and as a result I just can't take anything he says seriously Just in case you did not know, Michael Crichton passed away in November.
ori_b 17y ago
His definition of a religion is meaninglessly vague. By his definition, shopping at stores after looking at ads is a religion, as is my job, and school.

mhartl 17y ago

environmentalism offers salvation and a complete belief structure for many people Environmentalism is but one piece, but you're right that we're dealing with a religion here. Moreover, the narrative of sin and redemption is not a coincidence: progressivism (including its environmentalism subset) is not metaphorically a religion; it is a real, living (nontheistic) religion,* the clear intellectual descendant of mainline ecumenical protestant Christianity. A century ago it was the WCTU and the YMCA; today it's NOW and Greenpeace. *If a nontheistic religion seems like a contradiction in terms, the problem is merely linguistic; English lacks a good word meaning "all religious beliefs minus the supernatural stuff". Whatever you call it, a nontheistic religion can't help but show its roots: a nontheistic sect of Hinduism, for example, would still be identifiably Hindu, despite the absence of gods; it would likely lack a sin-redemption narrative, but would probably include some sort of caste system.

GeoJawDguJin 17y ago
I've seen some people use "myth" and "cult" to describe the theistic and worshipful aspects of religion, respectively. Unfortunately these words both have other, more common meanings with negative connotations, so using them in any sort of open discussion tends to raise some hackles.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  > I've seen some people use "myth" and "cult" to describe the theistic and worshipful aspects of religion, respectively. Unfortunately these words both have other, more common meanings with negative connotations, so using them in any sort of open discussion tends to raise some hackles. Strongly agree - do you have opinions on good words? I'm currently using "mysticism", "ritual", and "canon", which are often used by religions themselves. They don't seem completely neutral though. I think this has the potential to be an area of language that changes quickly, so we all look ignorant in 50 years when our writings are read, similar to how the terms for different races have changed a lot. My grandmother is almost 90 and calls a man of Chinese descent a "Chinaman", and I have to say, "No Grandma, we don't say that any more." And she's got a bit of a sense of humor, and says, "I listen to the radio, and they say Irishman, but Chinaman is wrong?" And I don't know how to answer that, since the Irish got all sorts of hell in the States too, and Irishman used to be derogatory, but now it's not and it's okay usage. I think the words used to describe religion are likely going to go through that, and references to myth (bad), cult (bad), mysticism (okay), ritual (okay), canon (generally positive) might all be passed by other words.
lionhearted 17y ago
> Moreover, the narrative of sin and redemption is not a coincidence: progressivism (including its environmentalism subset) is not metaphorically a religion; it is a real, living (nontheistic) religion,* the clear intellectual descendant of mainline ecumenical protestant Christianity. I've heard that, but never found a reasonably objective source that references primary sources. I've read a couple pieces: The general gist I got is that North American Christianity split into two basic movements - Fundamentalist Christianity, which emphasized that the Bible was literal and the ancient rites were necessary to be followed, and Progressive Christianity, which said that the Bible was not literal and was more inclusive and open to discussion. But I've not found any primary or objective secondary sources on how this went - you sound knowledgeable, do you happen to know any? > If a nontheistic religion seems like a contradiction in terms, the problem is merely linguistic; English lacks a good word meaning "all religious beliefs minus the supernatural stuff". Yes, that I'm very aware of. I've traveled a lot, and you can clearly see that most non-religious people still inherited their basic religious beliefs of their culture. Very few people actively study ethics and come to independent decisions from their peer group - most people inherit their base ethics from their surroundings, and since religions were the way that most people got their ethics for a very long time now, it's mirrored quite well even in non-religious people. People with formerly Confucian surroundings tend to have a very strong family emphasis, which was a fundamental tenet of Confucianism. People with Jewish surroundings tend to get a very strong scholarly emphasis, at least partially descending from the heavy emphasis on Torah studies. Places that had a heavy Christian presence often are more ashamed about sex, pornography, and nudity than places like Africa and Japan which had did not have those same religious views on sex. The fastest growing religions in the world are nontheistic - this will enter common thought in the next 50-100 years as the power of formal religions continues to decrease and more nontheistic religions gain followers. And that's not a bad thing, but you still absolutely need to insulate public servants and scientists from their religious beliefs, lest they impose their morals on their science and law, thus leading to - well, most people are aware of the impact religion had on law and science throughout the ages. It's a little bit of a dangerous time now, because there's no separation of nontheistic churches and the state.

papersmith 17y ago

For a more comprehensive interview on Charlie Rose, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AA5aIdOqlw#t=22m3s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AA5aIdOqlw#t=22m3s

Luc 17y ago

Michael Crichton also got conned into believing in spoon bending. http://www.michaelcrichton.net/qa-travels.html http://www.michaelcrichton.net/qa-travels.html I have been to one of Jack Houck's spoon bending parties (which Crichton talks about), and as a result I just can't take anything he says seriously anymore. Anyone who goes to such a party with an open mind will have to conclude it's a load of baloney. Only those who really really want to believe in that crap will come out thinking there is something to it.

wallflower 17y ago
> and as a result I just can't take anything he says seriously Just in case you did not know, Michael Crichton passed away in November.

ori_b 17y ago

His definition of a religion is meaninglessly vague. By his definition, shopping at stores after looking at ads is a religion, as is my job, and school.