4 ms·

If alternative medicine worked, believe me, the pharmaceutical companies would be edging in on that space. If alternate medicine worked, it'd just be medicine.

ZeroFries 11y ago
Why would they edge in on a space that doesn't make money? In other words, not every medicine is profitable (eg: commonly available herb).
- coldpie 11y ago
  There's enough money in alternative medicine that they could fund and publish their own studies to prove it's effective. They haven't.
  - fredkbloggs 11y ago
    Doesn't really seem like they need to. After all, drugs are heavily regulated, and they're not having any trouble selling an unregulated -- and unproven -- substance. Why invite trouble?
- spatulan 11y ago
  Commonly available herbs like tobacco? Nope, no way any business could make money through a commonly available herb
- DanBC 11y ago
  Have you seen the billions made by cranks and quacks? Just multi-vitamins is a billion dollar industry and apart from pregnancy or perhaps vitamin D most of the claims are bogus.
- murbard2 11y ago
  Because they would sell you pineapple extract for ten times the price, and you'd buy it because it'd be covered by insurance. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescription/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescriptio...
  - tertius 11y ago
    And they would isolate the effective compounds making a more effective hybrid, claim IP and make a ton of money.
- torgoguys 11y ago
  >Why would they edge in on a space that doesn't make money? In other words, not every medicine is profitable (eg: commonly available herb). So the companies selling common herbs are doing so at a loss?
graeham 11y ago
Important additional point - many markets (ie Europe) are cost-driven rather that revenue-driven (America). If alternative 'treatments' worked, there would be a larger push from the cost-driven markets.
torgoguys 11y ago
Exactly. Alternative medicine is medicine that is either not proven to work or is "medicine" proven not to work. Should something be sufficiently proven to work, with an appropriate risk/cost/etc vs. benefit ratio, it becomes medicine.
- Karunamon 11y ago
  I think this ignores the process required to get something "proven to work". Something that involves years, millions of dollars, and an insane amount of bureaucracy. Just publishing a scientifically sound paper in ARXIV isn't enough.
  - torgoguys 11y ago
    Not sure which angle you're taking on this. I could respond if you'd clarify. I'll take a guess though. If you are saying the bar is too high and such treatments will never get enough money to be sufficiently proven, well, then I'd point to the over 2 billion dollars we've poured down the drain funding alternative medicine studies via the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (formerly NCCAM). AFAIK Tom Harkin is the main guy who pushed through the creation of the agency and in the past has expressed disappointment (around 2009/2010?) that they haven't been able to demonstrate alternative medicine modalities as being effective. That hasn't led to any defunding of the agency though. It keeps trucking along, spending over $120 million dollars annually demonstrating that things we already have a good idea don't work...still don't work. > involves years, millions of dollars, and an insane amount of bureaucracy. Think about it--20 years, over $2 billion dollars. That's a lot of time and money. They should have results to show for it. Alternative medicine has this image of being "the little guy," and given it is less than 1% of dollars spent on healthcare in the US, it kind of is. However, that small percent is a small percent of a giant, giant, pool of money. While alternative medicine is small compared to medicine, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of money put towards it.
    - torgoguys 11y ago
      Should have typed "less than 2%." It is over 1%, about 1.5% with the definition NCCIH uses for what is included in alternative medicine.
jerven 11y ago
Pharma is in that space. They don't advertise it but they love "alternative" medicine because profit margins are insane. 20 euros for 10 grams of sugar brilliant, and it doesn't even have to work :) What is not to love for the profit driven pharma.
xlm1717 11y ago
It works... to make money.
raverbashing 11y ago
Well, there's another aspect Exercise, proper diet and losing weight helps with a lot of conditions (high blood pressure, blood sugar levels, sleep apnea, etc) But of course it's easier to prescribe the latest (and non-generic available pills).
- mikeash 11y ago
  Diet and exercise are great for prevention but not so great for cures. If you want to avoid getting cancer, then leading a healthy lifestyle is an excellent idea. If you actually have cancer, whether because you don't lead a healthy lifestyle or you did but just got unlucky anyway, then it's too late for diet and exercise. They might still help, but what you need at this point is treatment. Pharmaceutical companies may not do prevention so well, but this article is about what happens after prevention fails, at which point you need cures, and every pharma company out there is trying to be the next one to produce a big (and probably expensive) cure.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Pharmaceutical companies may not do prevention so well, but this article is about what happens after prevention fails, at which point you need cures, and every pharma company out there is trying to be the next one to produce a big (and probably expensive) cure. Pharma companies are a lot bigger on treatments than cures (how much of this is that treatments are easier to find than cures, and how much of it is that cures eliminate their own market and thus make less business sense is a matter of debate.)
    - fredkbloggs 11y ago
      > how much of this is that treatments are easier to find than cures, and how much of it is that cures eliminate their own market and thus make less business sense is a matter of debate Only in the sense that things aren't very easy to find when you aren't looking for them. Otherwise there really isn't much debate. Nothing brings home the bacon like chronic disease.
    - 11y ago

ZeroFries 11y ago

Why would they edge in on a space that doesn't make money? In other words, not every medicine is profitable (eg: commonly available herb).

coldpie 11y ago
There's enough money in alternative medicine that they could fund and publish their own studies to prove it's effective. They haven't.
- fredkbloggs 11y ago
  Doesn't really seem like they need to. After all, drugs are heavily regulated, and they're not having any trouble selling an unregulated -- and unproven -- substance. Why invite trouble?
spatulan 11y ago
Commonly available herbs like tobacco? Nope, no way any business could make money through a commonly available herb
DanBC 11y ago
Have you seen the billions made by cranks and quacks? Just multi-vitamins is a billion dollar industry and apart from pregnancy or perhaps vitamin D most of the claims are bogus.
murbard2 11y ago
Because they would sell you pineapple extract for ten times the price, and you'd buy it because it'd be covered by insurance. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescription/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescriptio...
- tertius 11y ago
  And they would isolate the effective compounds making a more effective hybrid, claim IP and make a ton of money.
torgoguys 11y ago
>Why would they edge in on a space that doesn't make money? In other words, not every medicine is profitable (eg: commonly available herb). So the companies selling common herbs are doing so at a loss?

graeham 11y ago

Important additional point - many markets (ie Europe) are cost-driven rather that revenue-driven (America). If alternative 'treatments' worked, there would be a larger push from the cost-driven markets.

torgoguys 11y ago

Exactly. Alternative medicine is medicine that is either not proven to work or is "medicine" proven not to work. Should something be sufficiently proven to work, with an appropriate risk/cost/etc vs. benefit ratio, it becomes medicine.

Karunamon 11y ago
I think this ignores the process required to get something "proven to work". Something that involves years, millions of dollars, and an insane amount of bureaucracy. Just publishing a scientifically sound paper in ARXIV isn't enough.
- torgoguys 11y ago
  Not sure which angle you're taking on this. I could respond if you'd clarify. I'll take a guess though. If you are saying the bar is too high and such treatments will never get enough money to be sufficiently proven, well, then I'd point to the over 2 billion dollars we've poured down the drain funding alternative medicine studies via the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (formerly NCCAM). AFAIK Tom Harkin is the main guy who pushed through the creation of the agency and in the past has expressed disappointment (around 2009/2010?) that they haven't been able to demonstrate alternative medicine modalities as being effective. That hasn't led to any defunding of the agency though. It keeps trucking along, spending over $120 million dollars annually demonstrating that things we already have a good idea don't work...still don't work. > involves years, millions of dollars, and an insane amount of bureaucracy. Think about it--20 years, over $2 billion dollars. That's a lot of time and money. They should have results to show for it. Alternative medicine has this image of being "the little guy," and given it is less than 1% of dollars spent on healthcare in the US, it kind of is. However, that small percent is a small percent of a giant, giant, pool of money. While alternative medicine is small compared to medicine, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of money put towards it.
  - torgoguys 11y ago
    Should have typed "less than 2%." It is over 1%, about 1.5% with the definition NCCIH uses for what is included in alternative medicine.

jerven 11y ago

Pharma is in that space. They don't advertise it but they love "alternative" medicine because profit margins are insane. 20 euros for 10 grams of sugar brilliant, and it doesn't even have to work :) What is not to love for the profit driven pharma.

xlm1717 11y ago

It works... to make money.

raverbashing 11y ago

Well, there's another aspect Exercise, proper diet and losing weight helps with a lot of conditions (high blood pressure, blood sugar levels, sleep apnea, etc) But of course it's easier to prescribe the latest (and non-generic available pills).

mikeash 11y ago
Diet and exercise are great for prevention but not so great for cures. If you want to avoid getting cancer, then leading a healthy lifestyle is an excellent idea. If you actually have cancer, whether because you don't lead a healthy lifestyle or you did but just got unlucky anyway, then it's too late for diet and exercise. They might still help, but what you need at this point is treatment. Pharmaceutical companies may not do prevention so well, but this article is about what happens after prevention fails, at which point you need cures, and every pharma company out there is trying to be the next one to produce a big (and probably expensive) cure.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Pharmaceutical companies may not do prevention so well, but this article is about what happens after prevention fails, at which point you need cures, and every pharma company out there is trying to be the next one to produce a big (and probably expensive) cure. Pharma companies are a lot bigger on treatments than cures (how much of this is that treatments are easier to find than cures, and how much of it is that cures eliminate their own market and thus make less business sense is a matter of debate.)
  - fredkbloggs 11y ago
    > how much of this is that treatments are easier to find than cures, and how much of it is that cures eliminate their own market and thus make less business sense is a matter of debate Only in the sense that things aren't very easy to find when you aren't looking for them. Otherwise there really isn't much debate. Nothing brings home the bacon like chronic disease.
  - 11y ago