7 ms·

Here is a more in-depth analysis of windows 10 and what is sent to MS http://aeronet.cz/news/analyza-windows-10-ve-svem-principu-jde-o-pouhy-terminal-na-sber-i

Here is a more in-depth analysis of windows 10 and what is sent to MS http://aeronet.cz/news/analyza-windows-10-ve-svem-principu-jde-o-pouhy-terminal-na-sber-informaci-o-uzivateli-jeho-prstech-ocich-a-hlasu/ http://aeronet.cz/news/analyza-windows-10-ve-svem-principu-j... For those who don't speak Czech: -It sends all text you type anywhere (not just into search) every 30 minutes to MS. If you type about a holiday to your blog, next day you'll see holiday ads. -Every 30 minutes it sends your geo-location and network information. -If you type a telephone number into Edge it sends it to MS after 5 minutes. -If you type anywhere in Windows a name of some movie, Windows will start indexing all your media files after a while and will send it to MS after 30 minutes of your inactivity. -After installing W10, it will send about 35MB of data once. -After turning on your webcam for the first time it sends data to microsoft once. -Everything you say is transferred to MS, it works even if you disable and remove and uninstall cortana. Parts of Cortana are needed for the core of the OS to run. -Voice is transferred every 15 min, 80MB of data. -After 15 minutes of your inactivity or when screensaver is on, network activity ramps up and everything else is being sent to MS. -Blocking in hosts doesn't work, IPs are hardcoded into their code and DLLs.

kardos 11y ago
Is any of this verified? During a previous posting of this it was largely dismissed as propaganda [1]. If someone has reproduced these findings that would be very interesting. What would be even more interesting would be for someone to intercept the spying data that is being sent back so we know for sure what's being sent. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053420
- Artemis2 11y ago
  Was about to ask for an alternate source too. Last time this was posted, people pointed out this website was not reliable at all. A nice analysis by a well-known security researcher should exist to confirm that.
  - ewzimm 11y ago
    Here's a nice analysis by a well-known security researcher in response to that article. He could not confirm the results. https://systemoverlord.com/blog/2015/08/16/so-is-windows-10-spying-on-you/ https://systemoverlord.com/blog/2015/08/16/so-is-windows-10-...
    - restalis 11y ago
      This "nice analysis" smells like apologist on duty to me: The only dubious behavior I observed was sending every keystroke in the Windows Start Menu to the servers, but I understand that combined Computer /Web search is being sold as a feature, and this is necessary for that feature. Calling it "feature" is insulting. It's a key-logger!
      - ewzimm 11y ago
        You can call it a key logger, and I understand why you would object, but sending search terms typed into a search box to a search engine is pretty much what people expect. Ubuntu does it. GNOME does it. Android does it. iOS does it. OS X does it. Windows is very nearly the last one to do it. Privacy is important, and I don't think either I or David Tomaschik would ever argue otherwise, and there should definitely be an opt-out, but I think there are more serious problems with Windows that would be more worth objecting to than searching the Web from a search box.
        tdkl 11y ago
        You didn't know that in Windows 10 until the news hit that disabling Cortana doesn't prevent that. Hell, I've never even seen Cortana since I'm in Dragon land (perhaps that's on the positive side for once) and I would've never thought the Start menu search isn't local only. Can I opt-out ? Nope. I can on Ubuntu, Android and iOS though.
        ewzimm 11y ago
        It's really not that hard to opt out. The search is just a default program, and you can replace it with whatever you want, like Classic Shell. You could argue as others have that there should be a default search which is local only, but why is it so important that everyone uses Microsoft's default programs rather than the millions of third party programs available? There seems to be a double standard where people say that it's important that Microsoft not push its own software over alternatives but also that Microsoft's default programs should fit every need of every user. There's plenty that Microsoft does wrong, but providing a search that uses their search engine while allowing users to install whatever search they like is not so bad. You are already contacting their servers for updates and other things. Having to install an alternative search is really no worse than having to install a web browser. Now you might say that the menu is basic functionality but the browser is not, but what's really the difference?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - edanm 11y ago
    Errrrr, are you saying that if someone is making up random accusations which are not true, we should treat them the same as facts?
  - criley2 11y ago
    >Does this even need to be verified ? Of course not. We should make blind, fear-based assumptions about businesses and reject the "rudder of rationality", so that we can be blown about by the winds of whatever viral fearmongering hits the top of our feeds for the day!!
  - kardos 11y ago
    Yes, it does. A fictitious list presented as fact does not contribute to the discussion. We know that Win 10 transmits lots of data to various hosts, and their recent privacy policy outlines a plausible, yet vague description of what is being sent. It is quite possibly deliberately incomplete/vague, and legitimate account of what is being sent would contribute greatly. As for being safe and maintaining privacy, it is well established that the solution is to move to an open system.
- hirsin 11y ago
  Well, seeing that 80 MB every 15 minutes is over 35 Tb/s (at only 50 million Win 10 users [1]), and 12 Tb/s was the reigning speed record... [1] http://www.winbeta.org/news/there-are-now-over-50-million-people-using-windows-10-worldwide http://www.winbeta.org/news/there-are-now-over-50-million-pe...
  - agscala 11y ago
    No, that's actually 0.8 Mb/s
    - hirsin 11y ago
      Yes, per person. At 50 million users, you need a 35 Tbps pipe to take in all that data.
      - yellowapple 11y ago
        That can conceivably be split across multiple datacenters in multiple countries - something which Microsoft almost certainly has access to.
        hirsin 11y ago
        Even breaking it across multiple datacenters you're still hardpressed to do those speeds over a short period (weeks), let alone constantly over time [1]. My point was the physics in the parent don't work. 1. http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2015/07/windows-10-launch-huge-traffic.html http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2015/07/windows-10-launch-hug...
Achshar 11y ago
Shit, that may just have changed my opinion on this. Is the first one really correct? Anything we type on a PC anywhere? So if I open up tor and load a site it's basically useless because any url I type in tor will go to ms anyways? WTF? Each and every one of those is completely unacceptable. Anyone know about any good unix distros that wont be too much of a culture shock to someone who has used windows his entire life?
- coldpie 11y ago
  I think the one I would most recommend for a newbie is Linux Mint. I don't feel strongly about this. If you don't like it, try something else. But expect some migrating pains regardless; you're used to Windows's warts, now you need to get used to another operating system's warts.
  - Achshar 11y ago
    I guess I am not a linux newbi. I know my way around a unix box I just haven't used it as my primary work station ever. So things like compatibility with all the popular stuff comes into play.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      If you're familiar with the command line, then the only OS I like personally is Arch Linux. You start with nothing more than a Bash shell (seriously, it doesn't even have an installer), install your OS onto a disk with a couple commands, and then install whatever software you want. I install the XFCE desktop environment and Firefox, and go from there. Arch doesn't try to babysit you or do things for you; you will be editing lots of plaintext config files from the shell. But it almost never breaks, because it only does what you explicitly tell it to. Very simple OS, great package management, cutting edge software, wonderful documentation. To be clear, I do NOT recommend it for folks who don't want a learning curve. But once you've over that curve, it is a haven from shitty operating systems.
      - Achshar 11y ago
jgrowl 11y ago
Sounds too crazy to believe. If true, I think I would be forced to stop using windows all together.
- anonbanker 11y ago
  If you haven't stopped yet, this won't change anything. Edit: bury me if you want, it doesn't make what I say any less true.
  - jgrowl 11y ago
    I've never heard of MS key-logging everything you type and broadcasting it to their servers. If that were true, I would 100% not use windows. I only use my windows box for steam games and that's mostly for dota2 these days which has a linux client. I don't know why you would assume to know me so well.
    - anonbanker 11y ago
      If you are seriously claiming ignorance to everything Microsoft has done since Palladium [1], Maybe you have a leg to stand on. But you seem like a smart guy, who has probably seen all the controversies (even if just with the Xbox One), so I think my original statement stands. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computi...
- baq 11y ago
  are you using google or facebook? might want to consider dropping those, too.
  - monochromatic 11y ago
    It's expected for Internet-based services that make their living on advertising. It is not expected for my operating system.
  - jgrowl 11y ago
fiatpandas 11y ago
>-If you type anywhere in Windows a name of some movie, Windows will start indexing all your media files after a while and will send it to MS after 30 minutes of your inactivity. This one really hard to believe. All the others are kind of believable. >-After 15 minutes of your inactivity or when screensaver is on, network activity ramps up and everything else is being sent to MS. But what is everything else?
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
No one has verified this. Sorry, but this list is just fearmongering. It would be good if we could focus on the facts here. There's a real issue here and it helps to be honest.
imaginenore 11y ago
That's a security nightmare.
nothis 11y ago
Call me naive, but some of these, especially the first, seem borderline illegal and I doubt that even in their greediest hour Microsoft would dare to implement this shit. If this is true, I'm sure they could be sued on quite a monumental scale.

kardos 11y ago

Is any of this verified? During a previous posting of this it was largely dismissed as propaganda [1]. If someone has reproduced these findings that would be very interesting. What would be even more interesting would be for someone to intercept the spying data that is being sent back so we know for sure what's being sent. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10053420

Artemis2 11y ago
Was about to ask for an alternate source too. Last time this was posted, people pointed out this website was not reliable at all. A nice analysis by a well-known security researcher should exist to confirm that.
- ewzimm 11y ago
  Here's a nice analysis by a well-known security researcher in response to that article. He could not confirm the results. https://systemoverlord.com/blog/2015/08/16/so-is-windows-10-spying-on-you/ https://systemoverlord.com/blog/2015/08/16/so-is-windows-10-...
  - restalis 11y ago
    This "nice analysis" smells like apologist on duty to me: The only dubious behavior I observed was sending every keystroke in the Windows Start Menu to the servers, but I understand that combined Computer /Web search is being sold as a feature, and this is necessary for that feature. Calling it "feature" is insulting. It's a key-logger!
    - ewzimm 11y ago
      You can call it a key logger, and I understand why you would object, but sending search terms typed into a search box to a search engine is pretty much what people expect. Ubuntu does it. GNOME does it. Android does it. iOS does it. OS X does it. Windows is very nearly the last one to do it. Privacy is important, and I don't think either I or David Tomaschik would ever argue otherwise, and there should definitely be an opt-out, but I think there are more serious problems with Windows that would be more worth objecting to than searching the Web from a search box.
      - tdkl 11y ago
        You didn't know that in Windows 10 until the news hit that disabling Cortana doesn't prevent that. Hell, I've never even seen Cortana since I'm in Dragon land (perhaps that's on the positive side for once) and I would've never thought the Start menu search isn't local only. Can I opt-out ? Nope. I can on Ubuntu, Android and iOS though.
        ewzimm 11y ago
        It's really not that hard to opt out. The search is just a default program, and you can replace it with whatever you want, like Classic Shell. You could argue as others have that there should be a default search which is local only, but why is it so important that everyone uses Microsoft's default programs rather than the millions of third party programs available? There seems to be a double standard where people say that it's important that Microsoft not push its own software over alternatives but also that Microsoft's default programs should fit every need of every user. There's plenty that Microsoft does wrong, but providing a search that uses their search engine while allowing users to install whatever search they like is not so bad. You are already contacting their servers for updates and other things. Having to install an alternative search is really no worse than having to install a web browser. Now you might say that the menu is basic functionality but the browser is not, but what's really the difference?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- edanm 11y ago
  Errrrr, are you saying that if someone is making up random accusations which are not true, we should treat them the same as facts?
- criley2 11y ago
  >Does this even need to be verified ? Of course not. We should make blind, fear-based assumptions about businesses and reject the "rudder of rationality", so that we can be blown about by the winds of whatever viral fearmongering hits the top of our feeds for the day!!
- kardos 11y ago
  Yes, it does. A fictitious list presented as fact does not contribute to the discussion. We know that Win 10 transmits lots of data to various hosts, and their recent privacy policy outlines a plausible, yet vague description of what is being sent. It is quite possibly deliberately incomplete/vague, and legitimate account of what is being sent would contribute greatly. As for being safe and maintaining privacy, it is well established that the solution is to move to an open system.
hirsin 11y ago
Well, seeing that 80 MB every 15 minutes is over 35 Tb/s (at only 50 million Win 10 users [1]), and 12 Tb/s was the reigning speed record... [1] http://www.winbeta.org/news/there-are-now-over-50-million-people-using-windows-10-worldwide http://www.winbeta.org/news/there-are-now-over-50-million-pe...
- agscala 11y ago
  No, that's actually 0.8 Mb/s
  - hirsin 11y ago
    Yes, per person. At 50 million users, you need a 35 Tbps pipe to take in all that data.
    - yellowapple 11y ago
      That can conceivably be split across multiple datacenters in multiple countries - something which Microsoft almost certainly has access to.
      - hirsin 11y ago
        Even breaking it across multiple datacenters you're still hardpressed to do those speeds over a short period (weeks), let alone constantly over time [1]. My point was the physics in the parent don't work. 1. http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2015/07/windows-10-launch-huge-traffic.html http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2015/07/windows-10-launch-hug...

Achshar 11y ago

Shit, that may just have changed my opinion on this. Is the first one really correct? Anything we type on a PC anywhere? So if I open up tor and load a site it's basically useless because any url I type in tor will go to ms anyways? WTF? Each and every one of those is completely unacceptable. Anyone know about any good unix distros that wont be too much of a culture shock to someone who has used windows his entire life?

coldpie 11y ago
I think the one I would most recommend for a newbie is Linux Mint. I don't feel strongly about this. If you don't like it, try something else. But expect some migrating pains regardless; you're used to Windows's warts, now you need to get used to another operating system's warts.
- Achshar 11y ago
  I guess I am not a linux newbi. I know my way around a unix box I just haven't used it as my primary work station ever. So things like compatibility with all the popular stuff comes into play.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    If you're familiar with the command line, then the only OS I like personally is Arch Linux. You start with nothing more than a Bash shell (seriously, it doesn't even have an installer), install your OS onto a disk with a couple commands, and then install whatever software you want. I install the XFCE desktop environment and Firefox, and go from there. Arch doesn't try to babysit you or do things for you; you will be editing lots of plaintext config files from the shell. But it almost never breaks, because it only does what you explicitly tell it to. Very simple OS, great package management, cutting edge software, wonderful documentation. To be clear, I do NOT recommend it for folks who don't want a learning curve. But once you've over that curve, it is a haven from shitty operating systems.
    - Achshar 11y ago

jgrowl 11y ago

Sounds too crazy to believe. If true, I think I would be forced to stop using windows all together.

anonbanker 11y ago
If you haven't stopped yet, this won't change anything. Edit: bury me if you want, it doesn't make what I say any less true.
- jgrowl 11y ago
  I've never heard of MS key-logging everything you type and broadcasting it to their servers. If that were true, I would 100% not use windows. I only use my windows box for steam games and that's mostly for dota2 these days which has a linux client. I don't know why you would assume to know me so well.
  - anonbanker 11y ago
    If you are seriously claiming ignorance to everything Microsoft has done since Palladium [1], Maybe you have a leg to stand on. But you seem like a smart guy, who has probably seen all the controversies (even if just with the Xbox One), so I think my original statement stands. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computi...
baq 11y ago
are you using google or facebook? might want to consider dropping those, too.
- monochromatic 11y ago
  It's expected for Internet-based services that make their living on advertising. It is not expected for my operating system.
- jgrowl 11y ago

fiatpandas 11y ago

>-If you type anywhere in Windows a name of some movie, Windows will start indexing all your media files after a while and will send it to MS after 30 minutes of your inactivity. This one really hard to believe. All the others are kind of believable. >-After 15 minutes of your inactivity or when screensaver is on, network activity ramps up and everything else is being sent to MS. But what is everything else?

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

No one has verified this. Sorry, but this list is just fearmongering. It would be good if we could focus on the facts here. There's a real issue here and it helps to be honest.

imaginenore 11y ago

That's a security nightmare.

nothis 11y ago

Call me naive, but some of these, especially the first, seem borderline illegal and I doubt that even in their greediest hour Microsoft would dare to implement this shit. If this is true, I'm sure they could be sued on quite a monumental scale.