5 ms·

I believe the price of an undergraduate degree is only justified if we assume some sort of real return (i.e., jobs that pay money) on the substantial investment

I believe the price of an undergraduate degree is only justified if we assume some sort of real return (i.e., jobs that pay money) on the substantial investment of time and money. Middle-class people don't typically spend years of their lives and tens of thousands of dollars on structured self-betterment activities.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
That's patently false. Skiing, painting, home woodshop, hobby farms, gardening... Many people believe that an education is a good thing in its own right. Its a sad view of life that you're own betterment isn't worth any price. I guess its all for hedonistic pleasures then? Video games, movies, fancy car - those are the meaning of life?
- humanrebar 11y ago
  I think you missed a couple words there: * middle class * structured The children of public school teachers don't go into debt to spend five (or six!) figures on all-inclusive ski tour packages (complete with certificate!) as part of a pursuit for abstract self-betterment. Also, if it were all for self-betterment, why have degrees at all? Why not just take classes that seemed worthwhile? Why have grades for that matter?
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Over a period of 4 or 6 years? Sure they do. Personally, I've gone to Scout meetings for 2 decades, and spent a fortune on structured outings, uniforms, materials and supplies. Its something I enjoy and has a good result. We have degrees to satisfy the need for some for closure, to recognize accomplishment, and to get old students out of there and make room for new ones. That a degree has been fastened onto as a job-training certificate is just unfortunate.
wfo 11y ago
The price is high because people expect to get money out of it, and more importantly to edge out other people for jobs because of having it. If people treat it like a certificate that says "I'm allowed to make X money" then it has high objective economic value and will become very expensive. In fact, more expensive degrees will signal more wealth and success. If we treated it like a necessary component of responsible citizenship, the duty of society to generate an educated voting populace, it would be a lot cheaper and people wouldn't be so upset walking away from college "just having become educated and being better, wiser people" without a job-training certificate. Alternately, we could remove art/non-engineering science/humanities and give up on the idea of education and just have vocational training camps so every citizen can become a happy capitalist worker bee doing whatever their betters see fit to train them in.
saint_fiasco 11y ago
>Middle-class people don't typically spend years of their lives and tens of thousands of dollars on structured self-betterment activities. But they really wish they could, and they actually believe they can, because there are always loans available to them. I think the useless degree is an extreme form of luxury. You get to show others that you are rich (otherwise you would work or go to a vocational school) and that your money doesn't define you (because otherwise you would study something useful to make more money).

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

That's patently false. Skiing, painting, home woodshop, hobby farms, gardening... Many people believe that an education is a good thing in its own right. Its a sad view of life that you're own betterment isn't worth any price. I guess its all for hedonistic pleasures then? Video games, movies, fancy car - those are the meaning of life?

humanrebar 11y ago
I think you missed a couple words there: * middle class * structured The children of public school teachers don't go into debt to spend five (or six!) figures on all-inclusive ski tour packages (complete with certificate!) as part of a pursuit for abstract self-betterment. Also, if it were all for self-betterment, why have degrees at all? Why not just take classes that seemed worthwhile? Why have grades for that matter?
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Over a period of 4 or 6 years? Sure they do. Personally, I've gone to Scout meetings for 2 decades, and spent a fortune on structured outings, uniforms, materials and supplies. Its something I enjoy and has a good result. We have degrees to satisfy the need for some for closure, to recognize accomplishment, and to get old students out of there and make room for new ones. That a degree has been fastened onto as a job-training certificate is just unfortunate.

wfo 11y ago

The price is high because people expect to get money out of it, and more importantly to edge out other people for jobs because of having it. If people treat it like a certificate that says "I'm allowed to make X money" then it has high objective economic value and will become very expensive. In fact, more expensive degrees will signal more wealth and success. If we treated it like a necessary component of responsible citizenship, the duty of society to generate an educated voting populace, it would be a lot cheaper and people wouldn't be so upset walking away from college "just having become educated and being better, wiser people" without a job-training certificate. Alternately, we could remove art/non-engineering science/humanities and give up on the idea of education and just have vocational training camps so every citizen can become a happy capitalist worker bee doing whatever their betters see fit to train them in.

saint_fiasco 11y ago

>Middle-class people don't typically spend years of their lives and tens of thousands of dollars on structured self-betterment activities. But they really wish they could, and they actually believe they can, because there are always loans available to them. I think the useless degree is an extreme form of luxury. You get to show others that you are rich (otherwise you would work or go to a vocational school) and that your money doesn't define you (because otherwise you would study something useful to make more money).