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> but Windows stopped being my primary operating system ever since that whole Snowden scandal. Snowden released nothing specifically about Windows. No backdoor

> but Windows stopped being my primary operating system ever since that whole Snowden scandal. Snowden released nothing specifically about Windows. No backdoors, no specific cooperation, only the NSA's bespoke malware (but they also have malware for everything under the sun, Linux, uEFI, RAID firmware, cell modems, etc). Sure, the NSA were spying on Microsoft by hooking the fiber lines between Microsoft's data centers in order to gain backdoor access to Hotmail (now Outlook.com). But they did the same thing to Google and several other organisations.

pdkl95 11y ago
Microsoft was an early adopter of PRISM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg > same thing to Google So what? The claim was about not using Microsoft's products.
- pmelendez 11y ago
  OP's point is that the whole Snowden thing was about datacenters, which happened to all biggest players so not using Windows is not going to mitigate that fact.
  - yellowapple 11y ago
    Even if that were true (as another commenter pointed out, Snowden's leaks are about far more than just datacenter snooping), that still puts Windows users at a lot of risk; when basically your whole computer is being continuously synchronized with Microsoft's servers, your whole computer is now vulnerable to such datacenter attacks.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  Microsoft weren't an adopter at all, that isn't what PRISM is. PRISM is the theft of unencrypted data on dedicated lines between data centers. > So what? The claim was about not using Microsoft's products. No, the claim was that Snowden revealed some Windows issue. That hasn't been shown. PRISM has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. Where is this Snowden-Windows smoking gun? I haven't seen it. PS - I find it odd that you'd link to that image instead of the main article which tells you exactly what PRISM is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)
  - knodi123 11y ago
    from user "ionised" above, July 31, 2012 Microsoft (MS) began encrypting web-based chat with the introduction of the new outlook.com service. This new Secure Socket Layer (SSL) encryption effectively cut off collection of the new service for FAA 702 and likely 12333 (to some degree) for the Intelligence Community (IC). MS, working with the FBI, developed a surveillance capability to deal with the new SSL. These solutions were successfully tested and went live 12 Dec 2012. From; https://search.edwardsnowden.com/ https://search.edwardsnowden.com/
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    > I find it odd that you'd link to that image Did you not see the evidence in the bottom left corner? ( Microsoft 9/11/07 ) > Microsoft weren't an adopter at all They were compared to the other businesses listed on that lide. > PRISM is the theft of unencrypted data on dedicated lines between data centers. This is as common misunderstanding. There are quite a few NSA programs that tap lines, which serve as inputs to XKEYSCORE. Some of these taps are line taps or Tailored Access based attacks, but those are not PRISM. PRISM is the "polite" way the NSA gets their data, using FISA warrants and the cooperation of the business. They ask for a tap, and the business accommodates them. IF a business decides to not be part of prism, that's when the NSA simply takes the data via other means. The entire point of PRISM as a program is that it involves asking private business to participate. > PRISM has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. When windows 10 decides to make all those network connections, where are they going? They're writing to some sort of database at Microsoft. Now that windows has made the network part of the OS, the situation at the remote data center becomes relevant.
    - us0r 11y ago
      The key here is the tap. People are under some delusion the NSA/FBI presents a list of actual suspects to said companies (regardless if they have "cleared" employees or not).
r3bl 11y ago
That whole PRISM thingy was the reason why I tried Linux. I didn't continue using it because I was scared for my privacy. I continued using it because it was awesome and satisfied every single one of my needs.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  PRISM had nothing to do with any specific operating system. Be it Linux, OS X, Windows or anything else. It was the theft of unencrypted data on dedicated fiber lines between data centers. It actually didn't impact Windows, it impacted Hotmail, OneDrive, and other Microsoft "Cloud" services. Ditto with Google, Apple, et al.
  - r3bl 11y ago
    Again, Microsoft was mentioned, so I tried something not made by any company that was mentioned. Is that so hard to figure out?
ionised 11y ago
> Snowden released nothing specifically about Windows. No backdoors, no specific cooperation. This is the exact opposite of what was claimed in many of the documents that were leaked. One example; July 31, 2012 Microsoft (MS) began encrypting web-based chat with the introduction of the new outlook.com service. This new Secure Socket Layer (SSL) encryption effectively cut off collection of the new service for FAA 702 and likely 12333 (to some degree) for the Intelligence Community (IC). MS, working with the FBI, developed a surveillance capability to deal with the new SSL. These solutions were successfully tested and went live 12 Dec 2012. From; https://search.edwardsnowden.com/ https://search.edwardsnowden.com/ That is the very definition of collaboration.

pdkl95 11y ago

Microsoft was an early adopter of PRISM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg > same thing to Google So what? The claim was about not using Microsoft's products.

pmelendez 11y ago
OP's point is that the whole Snowden thing was about datacenters, which happened to all biggest players so not using Windows is not going to mitigate that fact.
- yellowapple 11y ago
  Even if that were true (as another commenter pointed out, Snowden's leaks are about far more than just datacenter snooping), that still puts Windows users at a lot of risk; when basically your whole computer is being continuously synchronized with Microsoft's servers, your whole computer is now vulnerable to such datacenter attacks.
Someone1234 11y ago
Microsoft weren't an adopter at all, that isn't what PRISM is. PRISM is the theft of unencrypted data on dedicated lines between data centers. > So what? The claim was about not using Microsoft's products. No, the claim was that Snowden revealed some Windows issue. That hasn't been shown. PRISM has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. Where is this Snowden-Windows smoking gun? I haven't seen it. PS - I find it odd that you'd link to that image instead of the main article which tells you exactly what PRISM is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)
- knodi123 11y ago
  from user "ionised" above, July 31, 2012 Microsoft (MS) began encrypting web-based chat with the introduction of the new outlook.com service. This new Secure Socket Layer (SSL) encryption effectively cut off collection of the new service for FAA 702 and likely 12333 (to some degree) for the Intelligence Community (IC). MS, working with the FBI, developed a surveillance capability to deal with the new SSL. These solutions were successfully tested and went live 12 Dec 2012. From; https://search.edwardsnowden.com/ https://search.edwardsnowden.com/
- pdkl95 11y ago
  > I find it odd that you'd link to that image Did you not see the evidence in the bottom left corner? ( Microsoft 9/11/07 ) > Microsoft weren't an adopter at all They were compared to the other businesses listed on that lide. > PRISM is the theft of unencrypted data on dedicated lines between data centers. This is as common misunderstanding. There are quite a few NSA programs that tap lines, which serve as inputs to XKEYSCORE. Some of these taps are line taps or Tailored Access based attacks, but those are not PRISM. PRISM is the "polite" way the NSA gets their data, using FISA warrants and the cooperation of the business. They ask for a tap, and the business accommodates them. IF a business decides to not be part of prism, that's when the NSA simply takes the data via other means. The entire point of PRISM as a program is that it involves asking private business to participate. > PRISM has absolutely nothing to do with Windows at all. When windows 10 decides to make all those network connections, where are they going? They're writing to some sort of database at Microsoft. Now that windows has made the network part of the OS, the situation at the remote data center becomes relevant.
  - us0r 11y ago
    The key here is the tap. People are under some delusion the NSA/FBI presents a list of actual suspects to said companies (regardless if they have "cleared" employees or not).

r3bl 11y ago

That whole PRISM thingy was the reason why I tried Linux. I didn't continue using it because I was scared for my privacy. I continued using it because it was awesome and satisfied every single one of my needs.

Someone1234 11y ago
PRISM had nothing to do with any specific operating system. Be it Linux, OS X, Windows or anything else. It was the theft of unencrypted data on dedicated fiber lines between data centers. It actually didn't impact Windows, it impacted Hotmail, OneDrive, and other Microsoft "Cloud" services. Ditto with Google, Apple, et al.
- r3bl 11y ago
  Again, Microsoft was mentioned, so I tried something not made by any company that was mentioned. Is that so hard to figure out?

ionised 11y ago

> Snowden released nothing specifically about Windows. No backdoors, no specific cooperation. This is the exact opposite of what was claimed in many of the documents that were leaked. One example; July 31, 2012 Microsoft (MS) began encrypting web-based chat with the introduction of the new outlook.com service. This new Secure Socket Layer (SSL) encryption effectively cut off collection of the new service for FAA 702 and likely 12333 (to some degree) for the Intelligence Community (IC). MS, working with the FBI, developed a surveillance capability to deal with the new SSL. These solutions were successfully tested and went live 12 Dec 2012. From; https://search.edwardsnowden.com/ https://search.edwardsnowden.com/ That is the very definition of collaboration.