14 ms·

Basically M$ adoption of this strategy is the death knell for any semblance of privacy on the PC. It's amazing how far we have come to accepting such draconian

by x5n1 11y ago

Basically M$ adoption of this strategy is the death knell for any semblance of privacy on the PC. It's amazing how far we have come to accepting such draconian measures in order to further marketing. There is still time people, come on over to Linux, the privacy here is still fine and will continue to be fine. And if you come over, then all the desktop software makers will port their software to Linux and all the collapse of privacy will be a bad dream. Barring that, every single thought you have you will not be able to record or publish without the surveillance apparatus of your country and the US knowing about it. This is not some unfounded fear this is pretty much the current reality. Anyone who doesn't agree lives in a Pre-Snowden fictional world.

datalist 11y ago
$? (and no, I dont mean the shell's exit code) The 90s called and would like to have their hatred back. As for privacy issues in your recommendation -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28user_interface%29#Privacy_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28user_interface%29#Pri...
- x5n1 11y ago
  Yes he 90s called and would like to have their privacy back too. But we can't all get what we want can we?
- rbanffy 11y ago
  You know that, unlike Windows, you can turn it off.
  - datalist 11y ago
    Except for telemetry (and that you can turn off in the Enterprise edition as well) you can turn off all these features.
    - asantos3 11y ago
      You can't know if they are truly disabled, unlike ubuntu which is nowhere near what windows 10 does.
    - Crito 11y ago
      How many clicks and keypresses does it take to turn it all off?
      - kefka 11y ago
        1. F8 to boot from CD 2. Let DBAN do its job. So, 1.
    - unluckier 11y ago
      If you have a proven technique for making Windows 10 not phone home, post the details here.
    - vetinari 11y ago
      So why it connects to a-0001.a-msedge.net when I type into start menu, with web search and cortana turned off?
      - unluckier 11y ago
        You have to block outbound communication for "Search" in the Windows firewall. Regardless of whatever privacy settings you may have set.
        vetinari 11y ago
        Yes, I know. I was trying to point out, that even when you disable everything using the provided controls, the OS still doesn't respect your choice. Be careful regarding the searchui.exe firewall rule. It names specific assembly version - one silent update (is there any other in win10?) and your rule is invalid, instead a new rule that is enabled is suddenly in effect.
- asantos3 11y ago
  The privacy issues from Ubuntu are nowhere near what windows 10 does. > None of Ubuntu's official derivatives (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc.) include the feature or any variation of it. Ubuntu it's not the only distro out there, you also got Linux Mint and ElementaryOS for beginners.
- admax88q 11y ago
  He said use Linux, not "Ubuntu" There are plenty of linux distro that _do_ respect your privacy.
  - r3bl 11y ago
    Yeah, like every single other Linux distro. I think Ubuntu is actually the only one doing this and yet, even in Ubuntu, it takes literally two or three clicks to turn this feature off.
  - hippo8 11y ago
    True. But Ubuntu is one of the most popular distros. I have noticed, for many non-technical users, the name "Ubuntu" is synonymous with linux. At the end of the day, most of the technical users know how to stay protected. Atleast the type of people who can install a linux distro on their main computer. It's kind of our fault, we need to make the general public understand these risks, we need to make solutions more accessible. Because, if this sort of thing continue, we would one day suddenly wake up to a world that would not respect anyone's privacy. How many big companies are caught violating user's privacy, remember superfish? The funny thing is, big companies are starting to be more and more confident violating their user's privacy.
- LukeB_UK 11y ago
  Good job that people have a choice of desktop environment.
Beltiras 11y ago
Windows 7 is the last Microsoft OS I will run. Never used it for work anyways and very rarely game anymore. Maybe I can even find a way to run BNet on Linux. You can have all the freedom you want. Nobody is forcing you to use those programs.
- nugga 11y ago
  According to this if you're careless about installing all windows updates 7 and 8 will do the same: http://www.hakspek.com/security/updates-make-windows-7-and-8-spy-on-you-like-windows-10/ http://www.hakspek.com/security/updates-make-windows-7-and-8...
  - teh_klev 11y ago
    Fortunately most or all of those updates are "Optional", in particular the two mentioned in the main body of the articlen (KB3075249 and KB3080149). So if you're set up to only install "important" updates you'll have skipped them, as I did.
- Sami_Lehtinen 11y ago
  I got fed up with Windows when XP was released. I've been running 64bit Linux since.
Gladdyu 11y ago
"port their software to Linux". The main issue there is that there is not one single linux, the market is very fragmented. Getting the binary format right (which is the same across distros) is the trivial part, just set the proper compiler backend. The hard part would be getting all dependencies and especially IO sorted out. The wide range of display managers, audio drivers that needs to be supported to simply "port their software to Linux" means that this is unfeasible yet I'm afraid.
- x5n1 11y ago
  Yes if you actually write software for desktop Linux you know that it's not that much of a problem to actually do it if you want to. There is enough free software available, you know often written by individuals without multi-million dollar budgets, that I have not had need for using a Windows machine other than to compile software for Windows machines. If multi-million dollar companies actually wanted to support Linux they could do it without breaking a sweat. The only reason they don't is because Windows user base is so large and Linux's is so small that the benefit does not justify the cost. All you have to do is add a significant user base, say 5-10% of the market and it will be competitive with Mac and I am sure there will be lots more commercial software for it. I would also like to mention that my sister is a total computer dummy. Her computer always gets infected with malware and lots of it. But I installed Linux on it because I did not have a Windows install disk. And she loves it because it doesn't get malware anymore. And she loves the fact that she can install free software using Ubuntu's software center. That's a true story.
  - kaolinite 11y ago
    For what it's worth, I had the same experience with my parents. I installed Ubuntu on my dad's laptop and my mum's desktop. They loved it for quite a while - it was much faster, no security problems and no weird errors. I was so happy that I left a few comments online similar to yours. A year or so later, they both use Mac. In both cases, the inevitable question came "so I bought this <peripheral/software>, how can I get it to work?".
    - 11y ago
KaterKarlo123 11y ago
I've deactivated all reporting and services that call back home (at least which I was aware of). In addition I've installed glasswire to check the network activities. So far I can assure you: Compared to my Android phone Windows 10 is absolutely mute. There're no noticeable differences compared to Windows 7. You seem to be more driven by your hatred towards Microsoft than by real privacy concerns.
- x5n1 11y ago
  Hatred for Microsoft? I have none. I do hate the fact that we have an absolutely free operating system that works just fine but thanks to Bill Gates 90s shenanigans and aggressive and illegal market and business tactics we're stuck with a proprietary system that is totally unnecessary and as it continues that system becomes more and more invasive. And that system is a black box that you can't trust. Google started engineering features that were supposedly opt-in but they were so convenient that most people opted in anyway. Google forced people to divulge their data, for instance location, for navigation. It did not actually need the level of data it collects to provide navigation, it was just a way to steal their location privacy to increase its marketing reach and to improve the service not necessarily for the user but for its own business needs. How long before Microsoft starts employing the same tactics. You know you have a choice but it's a totally false choice!
  - cletus 11y ago
    Nothing about Linux on the desktop "works fine". It's horrible. UI seems to be one area that benefits--almost demands--a central planning authority. I'm reminded of Supported Features [1]. There is some great open source software out there. But I'm struggling to think of great open source software with a good UI. Not that I'm saying Windows is good mind you. My personal preference would be OSX, which you can view as Windows with a better underlying OS or Unix with a decent UI. Either way it's a win. [1]: https://xkcd.com/619/ https://xkcd.com/619/
    - zxcvcxz 11y ago
      Linux on the Desktop works stunningly for me. Seeing as you're an OS X fan I'm going to link you to this HN thread so we can go ahead and stop pretending that trash OS "just works": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10010395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10010395 As far as OSS interfaces go, I wouldn't be surprised if you're using an open source browser right now, seeing as the closed source alternatives don't compare. Windows has nothing to show for the billions of dollars put into it. Every installation of windows I've ever had was a piece of crap that got bugged out after a months use. It would be snappy at first and then it would start taking five minutes to boot, then when it did boot the whole OS would choke as soon as I opened the start menu. Then you have to give it a "cool down period" before you open any programs or it'll choke again. Linux doesn't have this problem. It's a myth that Windows "just works" or that os x "just works". You have just as many buggy drivers and weird issues on those operating systems as you do Linux. For me, Linux with GNOME is just the easiest to use, most stable, prettiest, OS out there. I didn't have to use the command line or configure any text files. It just worked. To install windows 10 I actually needed to use command line instructions from https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3081048 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3081048
Silhouette 11y ago
Basically M$ adoption of this strategy is the death knell for any semblance of privacy on the PC. I think if anything it would be users accepting this strategy by installing the new OS that would be the death knell for privacy on the PC. So far, it doesn't seem clear that this will happen, though. The reaction from business is predictably hesitant anyway. Some of the concerns about Windows 10 won't apply so much with the more business-oriented versions, but in any case it seems likely that large organisations are going to do their homework, other than maybe a few high-profile early adopters who may or may not have been offered unusual incentives in return for being flag bearers. As for home users, there was reportedly a post from someone on the Edge team a few days after the launch that gave some figures about adoption generally. They looked quite impressive at first sight, but if you extrapolated from the reported adoption rate, it would still take a substantial increase or a very long time to shift the market as a whole onto Win10, despite all the incentives and nag messages and free upgrades Microsoft have been pushing this time. The one tiny data point I can contribute myself is that based on analytics I just checked for a consumer-focussed site I run, Edge hasn't even moved the needle on browser distributions this month. So I'm not sure Microsoft get to sound the death knell for privacy on the PC. They can provide an OS that reduces privacy and raises concerns, but that doesn't necessarily mean people and businesses will choose to use it. Time will tell.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  I think Win 10 is the death knell for Windows. SMEs won't touch it because of the privacy concerns. Corporates who have access to the full privacy features in the enterprise version are still suspicious of it. Its main USP for the general public is that it's not as bad as Win 8 - which hardly seems like a win at all. I'm happy to use Linux for some applications, but realistically I think most Windows users who are switching will move to a Mac. Personally, I'm keeping well away from Win 10. The one machine here with Win 8.1 isn't getting upgraded - ever. I may even downgrade it to 7.
  - Silhouette 11y ago
    I'm genuinely a little worried for Microsoft's future at this point. I've said before that I thought they would recover from Vista and 8 because XP and 7 were solid, but I wasn't sure they'd be able to recover from two turkeys in a row. If 10 turns out to be that second turkey, commercially speaking, I don't see how they come back unless the board have the stones to replace Nadella, the top man they themselves appointed surely expecting just this sort of corporate strategy. I haven't seen enough to make a firm prediction yet, but I do think if MS can't get a handle on these update and privacy issues very soon and they increasingly become the story instead of any of the new features, the writing may be on the wall. Microsoft seem to have attracted some overall positive reviews at launch for Win10 in the general press and non-geek PC sites/magazines, but a lot of that positive early coverage is getting drowned out by concerns about reliability, privacy, and whether the relatively few big new features (Cortana, Edge, DirectX 12) are actually worth much anyway (with, respectively, questionable effectiveness, lack of plug-ins, and few if any games available that take advantage of it any time soon, among other challenges). "It's not as bad as Win8" is not a pitch that is going to support sales for the next several years, particularly when so many of their business customers are still on 7 anyway and have nearly 5 more years before they're going to run into end-of-support issues and be forced to act one way or another. Microsoft seem to be throwing everything into cloud and services and mobile-friendly software and new devices, at the expense of solid server/desktop/laptop software that until recently has generally just worked and aside from the occasional blip stayed just working for a long time. Which of these areas has historically yielded Microsoft's more successful offerings, and which has had a string of disappointing results? Exactly.
jsf666 11y ago
The thing is what now? Using Linux everyday is atleast problematic, sometimes impossible (I've had like 20 distros and played with it a lot, used it in my job, etc.) cause of apps/drivers/etc. And what about phones? When iOS/Android/WP is a mobile botnet node what should I use? A 3310 Nokia? Is there any viable alernative? Is iOS/Apple the same vultures as Google/MS when it comes to privacy?
- JimmaDaRustla 11y ago
  Don't forget, system updating typically isn't straight forward depending on distro. I was explaining to my brother the other day the need to perform diffs on system configuration files after performing a system update. His eyes kind of glazed over as his brain understood the concept, but refused to accept that major linux distros hadn't evolved past it.
  - shock 11y ago
    I've used Ubuntu for a considerable amount of time and done numerous system updates. Please tell us what diffs you needed to perform, otherwise I call FUD.
    - JimmaDaRustla 11y ago
      Ubuntu uses aptitude and will prompt you when there are conflicting files and creates .dpkg-new for diffing: https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/21/debian-conffile-configuration-file-managed-by-dpkg/ https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/21/debian-conffile-config... Arch (pacman) creates .pacnew files for diffing later. RPM creates .rpmnew files, not sure if you're prompted or not at the time of updating.
      - shock 11y ago
        From the blog you linked: "Dpkg keeps a checksum of the last installed version of configuration file. When it must install a new version, it calculates the checksum of the currently installed file and if it doesn’t match anymore, it knows that the user has edited the file. In that case, instead of overwriting the configuration file, it asks the user what to do." If you didn't modify the system config you don't get prompted about what to do.
JimmaDaRustla 11y ago
Orwell? Is that you?
pjmlp 11y ago
Sure, as if we didn't had it already in Android and Ubuntu distributions.
incepted 11y ago
> There is still time people, come on over to Linux, the privacy here is still fine and will continue to be fine. And if you come over, then all the desktop software makers will port their software to Linux and all the collapse of privacy will be a bad dream. Mmmh... Did I actually go to slashdot instead of Hacker News? There are still people who believe this nonsense in 2015?
- JupiterMoon 11y ago
  I'm not sure why you think it is nonsense? Surely companies will sell their goods wherever they can find a worthwhile market. NB that some very expensive niche commercial software is available on Linux.
hadeharian 11y ago
Or the death knell for windows. Take your pick. I like privacy. I hate windows.
chaostheory 11y ago
> There is still time people, come on over to Linux, the privacy here is still fine and will continue to be fine. And if you come over, then all the desktop software makers will port their software to Linux and all the collapse of privacy will be a bad dream. I use Ubuntu almost daily as a desktop for programming. While it's way better than linux desktops 5 or 10 years ago, it's still a far cry from even Windows even with mainstream apps like Spotify and Dropbox. The UI (Unity, Gnome, and even KDE) still feels like a work in progress, sleep doesn't work for laptops and I feel like almost any update I do beyond security updates, will break my laptop resulting in fresh re-install. Moving over may work for us, but I doubt it'll work for most people (for now). OSX is the only place left for now. I don't see a normal PC linux distro winning as a desktop in the future. If I were to guess, the closest to linux most people can flock to for a desktop PC would either be some variant of Android or Chrome OS.
- JupiterMoon 11y ago
  The Spotify client on linux is a beta application made by some developers for themselves because they wanted it. Spotify released it because they are a fairly decent company and why not? Many of us use it but we should not regard it as a mainstream offering. (In spite of this I find Spotify on Linux to work better than Spotify on Mac.)
  - chaostheory 11y ago
    > The Spotify client on linux is a beta application made by some developers for themselves because they wanted it. Spotify released it because they are a fairly decent company and why not? That still doesn't detract from the point that I'm making: normal people will have a lot more troubling transitioning to Linux as opposed to OSX (or even Windows - if coming from OSX). Linux GUI apps just aren't very polished compared to Windows or OSX. > Many of us use it but we should not regard it as a mainstream offering Why not? It is being offered by Spotify itself even though it's labeled as 'beta'. It's also branded as a Spotify app and not as a 3rd party client. > (In spite of this I find Spotify on Linux to work better than Spotify on Mac.) That's different from my experience. Spotify for Linux didn't even display properly for me. When I scrolled up and down, there's always tearing. At least you gave a reason for your down vote, even though I don't find it valid just because we disagree.
nickysielicki 11y ago
> There is still time people, come on over to Linux, the privacy here is still fine and will continue to be fine. So long as you don't use a web-browser.
chli 11y ago
It was announced yesterday in the Swiss newspaper "Le Temps" that the Swiss Federal Data Protection and Information Commissioner has started an investigation on the privacy issues with Windows 10. He will contact Microsoft to better understand what data is uploaded, where it is stored, who has access to this information and for how long it is archived. He may seize the Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland if required. I don't think Microsoft will care too much but it's good that our government is at least considering what is happening here. Note that all that was triggered after an open letter sent to the Commissioner by the Swiss Pirate Party.

by x5n1 11y ago

datalist 11y ago

$? (and no, I dont mean the shell's exit code) The 90s called and would like to have their hatred back. As for privacy issues in your recommendation -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28user_interface%29#Privacy_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_%28user_interface%29#Pri...

x5n1 11y ago
Yes he 90s called and would like to have their privacy back too. But we can't all get what we want can we?
rbanffy 11y ago
You know that, unlike Windows, you can turn it off.
- datalist 11y ago
  Except for telemetry (and that you can turn off in the Enterprise edition as well) you can turn off all these features.
  - asantos3 11y ago
    You can't know if they are truly disabled, unlike ubuntu which is nowhere near what windows 10 does.
  - Crito 11y ago
    How many clicks and keypresses does it take to turn it all off?
    - kefka 11y ago
      1. F8 to boot from CD 2. Let DBAN do its job. So, 1.
  - unluckier 11y ago
    If you have a proven technique for making Windows 10 not phone home, post the details here.
  - vetinari 11y ago
    So why it connects to a-0001.a-msedge.net when I type into start menu, with web search and cortana turned off?
    - unluckier 11y ago
      You have to block outbound communication for "Search" in the Windows firewall. Regardless of whatever privacy settings you may have set.
      - vetinari 11y ago
        Yes, I know. I was trying to point out, that even when you disable everything using the provided controls, the OS still doesn't respect your choice. Be careful regarding the searchui.exe firewall rule. It names specific assembly version - one silent update (is there any other in win10?) and your rule is invalid, instead a new rule that is enabled is suddenly in effect.
asantos3 11y ago
The privacy issues from Ubuntu are nowhere near what windows 10 does. > None of Ubuntu's official derivatives (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc.) include the feature or any variation of it. Ubuntu it's not the only distro out there, you also got Linux Mint and ElementaryOS for beginners.
admax88q 11y ago
He said use Linux, not "Ubuntu" There are plenty of linux distro that _do_ respect your privacy.
- r3bl 11y ago
  Yeah, like every single other Linux distro. I think Ubuntu is actually the only one doing this and yet, even in Ubuntu, it takes literally two or three clicks to turn this feature off.
- hippo8 11y ago
  True. But Ubuntu is one of the most popular distros. I have noticed, for many non-technical users, the name "Ubuntu" is synonymous with linux. At the end of the day, most of the technical users know how to stay protected. Atleast the type of people who can install a linux distro on their main computer. It's kind of our fault, we need to make the general public understand these risks, we need to make solutions more accessible. Because, if this sort of thing continue, we would one day suddenly wake up to a world that would not respect anyone's privacy. How many big companies are caught violating user's privacy, remember superfish? The funny thing is, big companies are starting to be more and more confident violating their user's privacy.
LukeB_UK 11y ago
Good job that people have a choice of desktop environment.

Beltiras 11y ago

Windows 7 is the last Microsoft OS I will run. Never used it for work anyways and very rarely game anymore. Maybe I can even find a way to run BNet on Linux. You can have all the freedom you want. Nobody is forcing you to use those programs.

nugga 11y ago
According to this if you're careless about installing all windows updates 7 and 8 will do the same: http://www.hakspek.com/security/updates-make-windows-7-and-8-spy-on-you-like-windows-10/ http://www.hakspek.com/security/updates-make-windows-7-and-8...
- teh_klev 11y ago
  Fortunately most or all of those updates are "Optional", in particular the two mentioned in the main body of the articlen (KB3075249 and KB3080149). So if you're set up to only install "important" updates you'll have skipped them, as I did.
Sami_Lehtinen 11y ago
I got fed up with Windows when XP was released. I've been running 64bit Linux since.

Gladdyu 11y ago

"port their software to Linux". The main issue there is that there is not one single linux, the market is very fragmented. Getting the binary format right (which is the same across distros) is the trivial part, just set the proper compiler backend. The hard part would be getting all dependencies and especially IO sorted out. The wide range of display managers, audio drivers that needs to be supported to simply "port their software to Linux" means that this is unfeasible yet I'm afraid.

x5n1 11y ago
Yes if you actually write software for desktop Linux you know that it's not that much of a problem to actually do it if you want to. There is enough free software available, you know often written by individuals without multi-million dollar budgets, that I have not had need for using a Windows machine other than to compile software for Windows machines. If multi-million dollar companies actually wanted to support Linux they could do it without breaking a sweat. The only reason they don't is because Windows user base is so large and Linux's is so small that the benefit does not justify the cost. All you have to do is add a significant user base, say 5-10% of the market and it will be competitive with Mac and I am sure there will be lots more commercial software for it. I would also like to mention that my sister is a total computer dummy. Her computer always gets infected with malware and lots of it. But I installed Linux on it because I did not have a Windows install disk. And she loves it because it doesn't get malware anymore. And she loves the fact that she can install free software using Ubuntu's software center. That's a true story.
- kaolinite 11y ago
  For what it's worth, I had the same experience with my parents. I installed Ubuntu on my dad's laptop and my mum's desktop. They loved it for quite a while - it was much faster, no security problems and no weird errors. I was so happy that I left a few comments online similar to yours. A year or so later, they both use Mac. In both cases, the inevitable question came "so I bought this <peripheral/software>, how can I get it to work?".
  - 11y ago

KaterKarlo123 11y ago

I've deactivated all reporting and services that call back home (at least which I was aware of). In addition I've installed glasswire to check the network activities. So far I can assure you: Compared to my Android phone Windows 10 is absolutely mute. There're no noticeable differences compared to Windows 7. You seem to be more driven by your hatred towards Microsoft than by real privacy concerns.

x5n1 11y ago
Hatred for Microsoft? I have none. I do hate the fact that we have an absolutely free operating system that works just fine but thanks to Bill Gates 90s shenanigans and aggressive and illegal market and business tactics we're stuck with a proprietary system that is totally unnecessary and as it continues that system becomes more and more invasive. And that system is a black box that you can't trust. Google started engineering features that were supposedly opt-in but they were so convenient that most people opted in anyway. Google forced people to divulge their data, for instance location, for navigation. It did not actually need the level of data it collects to provide navigation, it was just a way to steal their location privacy to increase its marketing reach and to improve the service not necessarily for the user but for its own business needs. How long before Microsoft starts employing the same tactics. You know you have a choice but it's a totally false choice!
- cletus 11y ago
  Nothing about Linux on the desktop "works fine". It's horrible. UI seems to be one area that benefits--almost demands--a central planning authority. I'm reminded of Supported Features [1]. There is some great open source software out there. But I'm struggling to think of great open source software with a good UI. Not that I'm saying Windows is good mind you. My personal preference would be OSX, which you can view as Windows with a better underlying OS or Unix with a decent UI. Either way it's a win. [1]: https://xkcd.com/619/ https://xkcd.com/619/
  - zxcvcxz 11y ago
    Linux on the Desktop works stunningly for me. Seeing as you're an OS X fan I'm going to link you to this HN thread so we can go ahead and stop pretending that trash OS "just works": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10010395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10010395 As far as OSS interfaces go, I wouldn't be surprised if you're using an open source browser right now, seeing as the closed source alternatives don't compare. Windows has nothing to show for the billions of dollars put into it. Every installation of windows I've ever had was a piece of crap that got bugged out after a months use. It would be snappy at first and then it would start taking five minutes to boot, then when it did boot the whole OS would choke as soon as I opened the start menu. Then you have to give it a "cool down period" before you open any programs or it'll choke again. Linux doesn't have this problem. It's a myth that Windows "just works" or that os x "just works". You have just as many buggy drivers and weird issues on those operating systems as you do Linux. For me, Linux with GNOME is just the easiest to use, most stable, prettiest, OS out there. I didn't have to use the command line or configure any text files. It just worked. To install windows 10 I actually needed to use command line instructions from https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3081048 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3081048

Silhouette 11y ago

Basically M$ adoption of this strategy is the death knell for any semblance of privacy on the PC. I think if anything it would be users accepting this strategy by installing the new OS that would be the death knell for privacy on the PC. So far, it doesn't seem clear that this will happen, though. The reaction from business is predictably hesitant anyway. Some of the concerns about Windows 10 won't apply so much with the more business-oriented versions, but in any case it seems likely that large organisations are going to do their homework, other than maybe a few high-profile early adopters who may or may not have been offered unusual incentives in return for being flag bearers. As for home users, there was reportedly a post from someone on the Edge team a few days after the launch that gave some figures about adoption generally. They looked quite impressive at first sight, but if you extrapolated from the reported adoption rate, it would still take a substantial increase or a very long time to shift the market as a whole onto Win10, despite all the incentives and nag messages and free upgrades Microsoft have been pushing this time. The one tiny data point I can contribute myself is that based on analytics I just checked for a consumer-focussed site I run, Edge hasn't even moved the needle on browser distributions this month. So I'm not sure Microsoft get to sound the death knell for privacy on the PC. They can provide an OS that reduces privacy and raises concerns, but that doesn't necessarily mean people and businesses will choose to use it. Time will tell.

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
I think Win 10 is the death knell for Windows. SMEs won't touch it because of the privacy concerns. Corporates who have access to the full privacy features in the enterprise version are still suspicious of it. Its main USP for the general public is that it's not as bad as Win 8 - which hardly seems like a win at all. I'm happy to use Linux for some applications, but realistically I think most Windows users who are switching will move to a Mac. Personally, I'm keeping well away from Win 10. The one machine here with Win 8.1 isn't getting upgraded - ever. I may even downgrade it to 7.
- Silhouette 11y ago
  I'm genuinely a little worried for Microsoft's future at this point. I've said before that I thought they would recover from Vista and 8 because XP and 7 were solid, but I wasn't sure they'd be able to recover from two turkeys in a row. If 10 turns out to be that second turkey, commercially speaking, I don't see how they come back unless the board have the stones to replace Nadella, the top man they themselves appointed surely expecting just this sort of corporate strategy. I haven't seen enough to make a firm prediction yet, but I do think if MS can't get a handle on these update and privacy issues very soon and they increasingly become the story instead of any of the new features, the writing may be on the wall. Microsoft seem to have attracted some overall positive reviews at launch for Win10 in the general press and non-geek PC sites/magazines, but a lot of that positive early coverage is getting drowned out by concerns about reliability, privacy, and whether the relatively few big new features (Cortana, Edge, DirectX 12) are actually worth much anyway (with, respectively, questionable effectiveness, lack of plug-ins, and few if any games available that take advantage of it any time soon, among other challenges). "It's not as bad as Win8" is not a pitch that is going to support sales for the next several years, particularly when so many of their business customers are still on 7 anyway and have nearly 5 more years before they're going to run into end-of-support issues and be forced to act one way or another. Microsoft seem to be throwing everything into cloud and services and mobile-friendly software and new devices, at the expense of solid server/desktop/laptop software that until recently has generally just worked and aside from the occasional blip stayed just working for a long time. Which of these areas has historically yielded Microsoft's more successful offerings, and which has had a string of disappointing results? Exactly.

jsf666 11y ago

The thing is what now? Using Linux everyday is atleast problematic, sometimes impossible (I've had like 20 distros and played with it a lot, used it in my job, etc.) cause of apps/drivers/etc. And what about phones? When iOS/Android/WP is a mobile botnet node what should I use? A 3310 Nokia? Is there any viable alernative? Is iOS/Apple the same vultures as Google/MS when it comes to privacy?

JimmaDaRustla 11y ago
Don't forget, system updating typically isn't straight forward depending on distro. I was explaining to my brother the other day the need to perform diffs on system configuration files after performing a system update. His eyes kind of glazed over as his brain understood the concept, but refused to accept that major linux distros hadn't evolved past it.
- shock 11y ago
  I've used Ubuntu for a considerable amount of time and done numerous system updates. Please tell us what diffs you needed to perform, otherwise I call FUD.
  - JimmaDaRustla 11y ago
    Ubuntu uses aptitude and will prompt you when there are conflicting files and creates .dpkg-new for diffing: https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/21/debian-conffile-configuration-file-managed-by-dpkg/ https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/09/21/debian-conffile-config... Arch (pacman) creates .pacnew files for diffing later. RPM creates .rpmnew files, not sure if you're prompted or not at the time of updating.
    - shock 11y ago
      From the blog you linked: "Dpkg keeps a checksum of the last installed version of configuration file. When it must install a new version, it calculates the checksum of the currently installed file and if it doesn’t match anymore, it knows that the user has edited the file. In that case, instead of overwriting the configuration file, it asks the user what to do." If you didn't modify the system config you don't get prompted about what to do.

JimmaDaRustla 11y ago

Orwell? Is that you?

pjmlp 11y ago

Sure, as if we didn't had it already in Android and Ubuntu distributions.

incepted 11y ago

> There is still time people, come on over to Linux, the privacy here is still fine and will continue to be fine. And if you come over, then all the desktop software makers will port their software to Linux and all the collapse of privacy will be a bad dream. Mmmh... Did I actually go to slashdot instead of Hacker News? There are still people who believe this nonsense in 2015?

JupiterMoon 11y ago
I'm not sure why you think it is nonsense? Surely companies will sell their goods wherever they can find a worthwhile market. NB that some very expensive niche commercial software is available on Linux.

hadeharian 11y ago

Or the death knell for windows. Take your pick. I like privacy. I hate windows.

chaostheory 11y ago

> There is still time people, come on over to Linux, the privacy here is still fine and will continue to be fine. And if you come over, then all the desktop software makers will port their software to Linux and all the collapse of privacy will be a bad dream. I use Ubuntu almost daily as a desktop for programming. While it's way better than linux desktops 5 or 10 years ago, it's still a far cry from even Windows even with mainstream apps like Spotify and Dropbox. The UI (Unity, Gnome, and even KDE) still feels like a work in progress, sleep doesn't work for laptops and I feel like almost any update I do beyond security updates, will break my laptop resulting in fresh re-install. Moving over may work for us, but I doubt it'll work for most people (for now). OSX is the only place left for now. I don't see a normal PC linux distro winning as a desktop in the future. If I were to guess, the closest to linux most people can flock to for a desktop PC would either be some variant of Android or Chrome OS.

JupiterMoon 11y ago
The Spotify client on linux is a beta application made by some developers for themselves because they wanted it. Spotify released it because they are a fairly decent company and why not? Many of us use it but we should not regard it as a mainstream offering. (In spite of this I find Spotify on Linux to work better than Spotify on Mac.)
- chaostheory 11y ago
  > The Spotify client on linux is a beta application made by some developers for themselves because they wanted it. Spotify released it because they are a fairly decent company and why not? That still doesn't detract from the point that I'm making: normal people will have a lot more troubling transitioning to Linux as opposed to OSX (or even Windows - if coming from OSX). Linux GUI apps just aren't very polished compared to Windows or OSX. > Many of us use it but we should not regard it as a mainstream offering Why not? It is being offered by Spotify itself even though it's labeled as 'beta'. It's also branded as a Spotify app and not as a 3rd party client. > (In spite of this I find Spotify on Linux to work better than Spotify on Mac.) That's different from my experience. Spotify for Linux didn't even display properly for me. When I scrolled up and down, there's always tearing. At least you gave a reason for your down vote, even though I don't find it valid just because we disagree.

nickysielicki 11y ago

> There is still time people, come on over to Linux, the privacy here is still fine and will continue to be fine. So long as you don't use a web-browser.

chli 11y ago

It was announced yesterday in the Swiss newspaper "Le Temps" that the Swiss Federal Data Protection and Information Commissioner has started an investigation on the privacy issues with Windows 10. He will contact Microsoft to better understand what data is uploaded, where it is stored, who has access to this information and for how long it is archived. He may seize the Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland if required. I don't think Microsoft will care too much but it's good that our government is at least considering what is happening here. Note that all that was triggered after an open letter sent to the Commissioner by the Swiss Pirate Party.