5 ms·

A Sprawl of Abandoned Homes in Tokyo Suburbs

41 points by joubert 11y ago

ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
Japan's population is aging quickly, as far as abandonded property goes this is only the tip of the iceburg. In the next 20 years 25% of the buildings are foretasted to be empty, and in fifty years they'll have lost a third of their population.
- batiudrami 11y ago
  Both those stats are in the article.
  - ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
    I'm glad you read it
sdrothrock 11y ago
There are actually programs out in the countryside to give people subsidies and stipends to move out there -- in some cases, they'll even rent out large houses/apartments for a pittance as well as subsidizing utilities.
- ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
  That's cool but has nothing to do with the article, which is about abandoned properties as a whole, resulting from the fact that Japan's population is rapidly shrinking....
  - sdrothrock 11y ago
    It shows that: 1. Different municipalities are addressing the countryside population decline in different ways. 2. Different municipalities are addressing the abandoned property problem in different ways. It seems directly relevant to me.
mistermann 11y ago
I wonder how open Japan might become to accepting foreigner immigration in the future, especially westerners (Japan is pretty famously racist, I think westerners would tend to be one of their least distasteful sources of immigration). Hopefully, because the prospect of spending my retirement years there is highly enticing. I land and housing is as cheap as the article implies, it seems financially feasible.
- relet 11y ago
  And you will be competing for resources and attention with all the politely racist elderly that lived in that place since forever. Does not sound like a retirement plan for me.
  - robzyb 11y ago
    > And you will be competing for resources and attention with all the politely racist elderly that lived in that place since forever. Does not sound like a retirement plan for me. The currently-elderly might not be there by the time mistermann wants to move there.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- harisenbon 11y ago
  In my experience, immigration as a westerner is pretty easy -- especially after the horror stories I hear about the U.S. You need to have some sort of sponsor (business is the most common) but overall the process is fairly painless, and relaxed. Living here is fairly cheap as well -- especially if you're outside large cities. Casual Racism is probably the biggest hurdle to living in Japan, especially outside of big cities. I've only had a handful of overt racism in the last 12 years, but there are constant reminders every day that you are not, in fact, Japanese. And it's not done through malice, but rather just pure curiosity. I'm hoping that immigration policies get better in the future, but not holding my breath.
smegel 11y ago
But isn't rent in Tokyo still disgustingly high? Something doesn't add up.
- ericdykstra 11y ago
  It's comparable to any world-class city, and significantly cheaper than, say, San Francisco or London (especially if you consider the age/condition of apartments). The population of the Tokyo area is still growing, so I'm guessing people are just moving more towards the city's center.
  - deciplex 11y ago
    > especially if you consider the age/condition of apartments But apartment buildings in Tokyo are terrible. Fifteen years is considered "old" and that's not due to high standards - it's because after fifteen years the building is falling apart. I also suspect that if you compare rent per square meter, you're right you'll still have higher prices than London at least and probably SF as well, but significantly cheaper might be a stretch. $2500/month for 500 sq ft is expensive anywhere. (And if the rent doesn't get you, parking will, though it's very easy to live without a car in Tokyo.)
    - rheide 11y ago
      You're right about the parking bit but I have a hard time believing you about the rent or the building quality. I lived in Kanagawa for 5 years in a very old (for Japanese standards) apartment building, and it was rock solid. Don't forget that these buildings are designed to withstand earthquakes, whereas London buildings are just slowly rotting away. Regarding rent: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Japan&city2=Tokyo http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun... Nowadays I'm living in London and have seen housing for way higher prices and way, way worse condition than the apartments I've seen in Tokyo. London build quality is utterly terrible. Japanese build quality is quality.
      - 11y ago

41 points by joubert 11y ago

Japan's population is aging quickly, as far as abandonded property goes this is only the tip of the iceburg. In the next 20 years 25% of the buildings are foretasted to be empty, and in fifty years they'll have lost a third of their population.

batiudrami 11y ago
Both those stats are in the article.
- ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
  I'm glad you read it

sdrothrock 11y ago

There are actually programs out in the countryside to give people subsidies and stipends to move out there -- in some cases, they'll even rent out large houses/apartments for a pittance as well as subsidizing utilities.

ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
That's cool but has nothing to do with the article, which is about abandoned properties as a whole, resulting from the fact that Japan's population is rapidly shrinking....
- sdrothrock 11y ago
  It shows that: 1. Different municipalities are addressing the countryside population decline in different ways. 2. Different municipalities are addressing the abandoned property problem in different ways. It seems directly relevant to me.

mistermann 11y ago

I wonder how open Japan might become to accepting foreigner immigration in the future, especially westerners (Japan is pretty famously racist, I think westerners would tend to be one of their least distasteful sources of immigration). Hopefully, because the prospect of spending my retirement years there is highly enticing. I land and housing is as cheap as the article implies, it seems financially feasible.

relet 11y ago
And you will be competing for resources and attention with all the politely racist elderly that lived in that place since forever. Does not sound like a retirement plan for me.
- robzyb 11y ago
  > And you will be competing for resources and attention with all the politely racist elderly that lived in that place since forever. Does not sound like a retirement plan for me. The currently-elderly might not be there by the time mistermann wants to move there.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
harisenbon 11y ago
In my experience, immigration as a westerner is pretty easy -- especially after the horror stories I hear about the U.S. You need to have some sort of sponsor (business is the most common) but overall the process is fairly painless, and relaxed. Living here is fairly cheap as well -- especially if you're outside large cities. Casual Racism is probably the biggest hurdle to living in Japan, especially outside of big cities. I've only had a handful of overt racism in the last 12 years, but there are constant reminders every day that you are not, in fact, Japanese. And it's not done through malice, but rather just pure curiosity. I'm hoping that immigration policies get better in the future, but not holding my breath.

smegel 11y ago

But isn't rent in Tokyo still disgustingly high? Something doesn't add up.

ericdykstra 11y ago
It's comparable to any world-class city, and significantly cheaper than, say, San Francisco or London (especially if you consider the age/condition of apartments). The population of the Tokyo area is still growing, so I'm guessing people are just moving more towards the city's center.
- deciplex 11y ago
  > especially if you consider the age/condition of apartments But apartment buildings in Tokyo are terrible. Fifteen years is considered "old" and that's not due to high standards - it's because after fifteen years the building is falling apart. I also suspect that if you compare rent per square meter, you're right you'll still have higher prices than London at least and probably SF as well, but significantly cheaper might be a stretch. $2500/month for 500 sq ft is expensive anywhere. (And if the rent doesn't get you, parking will, though it's very easy to live without a car in Tokyo.)
  - rheide 11y ago
    You're right about the parking bit but I have a hard time believing you about the rent or the building quality. I lived in Kanagawa for 5 years in a very old (for Japanese standards) apartment building, and it was rock solid. Don't forget that these buildings are designed to withstand earthquakes, whereas London buildings are just slowly rotting away. Regarding rent: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Japan&city2=Tokyo http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun... Nowadays I'm living in London and have seen housing for way higher prices and way, way worse condition than the apartments I've seen in Tokyo. London build quality is utterly terrible. Japanese build quality is quality.
    - 11y ago