4 ms·

Silicon Valley: How Can I Survive in the Bay Area?

23 points by epsylon 11y ago

themartorana 11y ago
I do pretty well for myself, money- and job-satisfaction wise. Yet I still stare at housing prices in Manhattan or San Fran or many other urban areas and wonder how there are so many people making so much more money than I do. What do they all do?!
- chillydawg 11y ago
  Gamble with your pension fund, keep the winnings when they win and cry to the government to pay them back when they lose. They're called bankers and they're scum.
- go1979 11y ago
  Housing prices and student loans are the bane of my generation (mid 30s atm). I just moved to the Bay area .. feel like I'll always be a renter. While a lender will give me money to buy a million dollar condo, I'd be one misfortune (losing my job) away from having to declare bankruptcy. I don't have the stomach for that. I'm starting to develop a theory that the tax rate at upper middle class incomes could be to blame.
- someguydave 11y ago
  "I ... wonder how there are so many people making so much more money than I do." I've thought about this a great deal, and there are at least four responses: 1.) As pointed out by others, I suspect a majority of households living in these expensive areas could not actually afford to 'rebuy' their house on the basis of current income. 2.) As a corollary, the prices you are seeing are only paid by marginal actors who happen to have the income or savings needed to get a mortgage. Thus only a minority of people living in the expensive area can actually 'afford' it. 3.) Lots of people are willing to commit to paying 50% or more of their gross income to a mortgage. They win (at the margin) and drive up housing prices. 4.) The money lent for residential housing is 'backed' by the government, which essentially means it is printed (not in the sense that it is printed at origination time, but it is instead printed when then entire housing market goes south and the Fed needs to bail out the Treasury/GSEs.). I would note that printing a dollar is the same as thieving a dollar from the sum of all dollars held. So in conclusion, the reason housing is expensive is because people are willing to take risks with other people's money. If you aren't that kind of person, you probably don't belong in one of these expensive housing markets.
wobbleblob 11y ago
I'm shocked when people complain they can't make ends meet at a $400k income. A quick google search shows that the cost of living in San Francisco may be on the high side by American standards, but would be completely unremarkable here in Western Europe, where an income that high is almost unheard of. Maybe they expect too much? Do they want a large family villa with room for two cars and a 100 year old oak in the yard in a neighborhood that's not too, uhm, 'diverse', and no more than half an hour from work and the downtown area? Yeah, your bosses want that too, so that's why it's expensive. You'll have to settle for something less perfect, or move somewhere else.
- yo-code-sucks 11y ago
  I hop you realize a 2 bed 2 bath condo goes for about 1.2-2 million in SF. In San Jose it'll run you about 600k for a decent neighborhood.
- dominotw 11y ago
  >Maybe they expect too much? Yep definitely. Capitalism depends on people buying what they are selling. The whole system falls apart if you don't buy what they are selling you. Our brains have now been so conditioned that we think this is the "normal" brain. A brain that craves something, something that is being sold to you, all the time. I wish we could step back and evaluate what is happening to human mind and why despite centuries of technological advances we are still lonely, anxious, desperate and violent. I wish we could stop with the technological fanaticism and economic intoxication. I really don't want any of the shit apps that SV is producing. I don't give a shit about Virtual Reality,fitness trackers or eating white powdery garbage for breakfast. Please stop with this stupid shit for god's sake.
  - wobbleblob 11y ago
    Uhm, I didn't mean my post as an anti capitalist rant. I just wanted to point out that to me $400k is an enormous amount of money that I can't even begin to imagine making in a year, and the cost of living where I live is comparable to where they live. They're asking for the equivalent of a single family home on the Prinsengracht or in Kensington and complain that this isn't affordable. They're expecting too much. You can have a 2 bedroom appartment down town, or a fairly fancy single family home out of town. Also, they shouldn't be so afraid of their children going to school in a district where not everyone is rich and white.
sethev 11y ago
The title on this question is a bit dramatic. After all, this couple does earn more than double Cupertino's median household income of $160k. The median home price in Cupertino is $1.74M so it seems like a better response than the whiny top response on Quora is: how can this couple not afford a home there on a $400k salary when clearly so many other people can?
- fallinghawks 11y ago
  Using the word 'survive' instead of 'buy our dream house in a perfect location' is what's causing the level of scorn. People on minimum wage try to survive. At 400K there is no chance this couple is going to have to choose between eating and paying rent.
- go1979 11y ago
  I am pretty certain the median home owner in the desirable Bay area cities could not afford their homes at their income level. The rise in home prices relative to incomes is pervasive in almost every city with good jobs. We live in crazy times. You can't blame low interest rates or "foreign investors". But don't hate on the people whining because they have a valid point :)

23 points by epsylon 11y ago

I do pretty well for myself, money- and job-satisfaction wise. Yet I still stare at housing prices in Manhattan or San Fran or many other urban areas and wonder how there are so many people making so much more money than I do. What do they all do?!

chillydawg 11y ago
Gamble with your pension fund, keep the winnings when they win and cry to the government to pay them back when they lose. They're called bankers and they're scum.
go1979 11y ago
Housing prices and student loans are the bane of my generation (mid 30s atm). I just moved to the Bay area .. feel like I'll always be a renter. While a lender will give me money to buy a million dollar condo, I'd be one misfortune (losing my job) away from having to declare bankruptcy. I don't have the stomach for that. I'm starting to develop a theory that the tax rate at upper middle class incomes could be to blame.
someguydave 11y ago
"I ... wonder how there are so many people making so much more money than I do." I've thought about this a great deal, and there are at least four responses: 1.) As pointed out by others, I suspect a majority of households living in these expensive areas could not actually afford to 'rebuy' their house on the basis of current income. 2.) As a corollary, the prices you are seeing are only paid by marginal actors who happen to have the income or savings needed to get a mortgage. Thus only a minority of people living in the expensive area can actually 'afford' it. 3.) Lots of people are willing to commit to paying 50% or more of their gross income to a mortgage. They win (at the margin) and drive up housing prices. 4.) The money lent for residential housing is 'backed' by the government, which essentially means it is printed (not in the sense that it is printed at origination time, but it is instead printed when then entire housing market goes south and the Fed needs to bail out the Treasury/GSEs.). I would note that printing a dollar is the same as thieving a dollar from the sum of all dollars held. So in conclusion, the reason housing is expensive is because people are willing to take risks with other people's money. If you aren't that kind of person, you probably don't belong in one of these expensive housing markets.

wobbleblob 11y ago

I'm shocked when people complain they can't make ends meet at a $400k income. A quick google search shows that the cost of living in San Francisco may be on the high side by American standards, but would be completely unremarkable here in Western Europe, where an income that high is almost unheard of. Maybe they expect too much? Do they want a large family villa with room for two cars and a 100 year old oak in the yard in a neighborhood that's not too, uhm, 'diverse', and no more than half an hour from work and the downtown area? Yeah, your bosses want that too, so that's why it's expensive. You'll have to settle for something less perfect, or move somewhere else.

yo-code-sucks 11y ago
I hop you realize a 2 bed 2 bath condo goes for about 1.2-2 million in SF. In San Jose it'll run you about 600k for a decent neighborhood.
dominotw 11y ago
>Maybe they expect too much? Yep definitely. Capitalism depends on people buying what they are selling. The whole system falls apart if you don't buy what they are selling you. Our brains have now been so conditioned that we think this is the "normal" brain. A brain that craves something, something that is being sold to you, all the time. I wish we could step back and evaluate what is happening to human mind and why despite centuries of technological advances we are still lonely, anxious, desperate and violent. I wish we could stop with the technological fanaticism and economic intoxication. I really don't want any of the shit apps that SV is producing. I don't give a shit about Virtual Reality,fitness trackers or eating white powdery garbage for breakfast. Please stop with this stupid shit for god's sake.
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  Uhm, I didn't mean my post as an anti capitalist rant. I just wanted to point out that to me $400k is an enormous amount of money that I can't even begin to imagine making in a year, and the cost of living where I live is comparable to where they live. They're asking for the equivalent of a single family home on the Prinsengracht or in Kensington and complain that this isn't affordable. They're expecting too much. You can have a 2 bedroom appartment down town, or a fairly fancy single family home out of town. Also, they shouldn't be so afraid of their children going to school in a district where not everyone is rich and white.

sethev 11y ago

The title on this question is a bit dramatic. After all, this couple does earn more than double Cupertino's median household income of $160k. The median home price in Cupertino is $1.74M so it seems like a better response than the whiny top response on Quora is: how can this couple not afford a home there on a $400k salary when clearly so many other people can?

fallinghawks 11y ago
Using the word 'survive' instead of 'buy our dream house in a perfect location' is what's causing the level of scorn. People on minimum wage try to survive. At 400K there is no chance this couple is going to have to choose between eating and paying rent.
go1979 11y ago
I am pretty certain the median home owner in the desirable Bay area cities could not afford their homes at their income level. The rise in home prices relative to incomes is pervasive in almost every city with good jobs. We live in crazy times. You can't blame low interest rates or "foreign investors". But don't hate on the people whining because they have a valid point :)