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I agree that rail seems ideal and much more economical and environmentally friendly, but is the system designed to handle consumer shipping with its demands for

by netfire 11y ago

I agree that rail seems ideal and much more economical and environmentally friendly, but is the system designed to handle consumer shipping with its demands for quick delivery with tight deadlines? (Which I'd argue constitutes a large portion of truck-based freight) How much longer does it take to load/unload a freight train versus a truck? How much slower is the train and how longer does it take to ship? (and how does that affect cost or product quality when shipping items that must be refrigerated in transit?) Is it a realistic option for same-day or overnight shipping required for services like Amazon Prime in the volume that is currently being carried by trucks? For items where delivery is not urgent, I'm all for using rail, but with expectations from consumers for quick delivery, its hard to see how they will be able to compete on the current system for rail-based freight. An alternative (at least in the short-term), might be to create truck-only traffic lanes or highways with tolls and fewer exits. (and other lanes or highways just for cars) The lanes could be built to withstand the additional weight from the trucks, and non-truck traffic would run more efficiently and safely.

WalterBright 11y ago
If people are willing to pay weight fees that reflect the true cost of fixing the road damage, they can continue to use the trucks. But why should taxpayers pay for 2 day delivery instead of 3 day by rail?
- jdc 11y ago
  I'd guess job creation, possibly with a side of union influence.
  - jdc 11y ago
    Do any of the down voters have another point of view they would like to share?
- netfire 11y ago
  I'm not suggesting they should. My alternate solution was a toll based system where the trucks would pay extra for roads that can withstand the extra weight. You could just increase the weigh station fees, but then you'd have to make all the lanes be able to withstand the extra weight, and you wouldn't have the extra benefits of safety (a car doesn't stand a chance against a truck in an accident) and efficiency (trucks can't accelerate/decelerate as fast as cars, so they contribute more to traffic congestion).
dalke 11y ago
http://www.bgiworldwide.com/domestic-shipping/rail http://www.bgiworldwide.com/domestic-shipping/rail says "Typical transit time for coast-to-coast delivery is 7 to 10 days." Figuring 44 hours to drive across the country (NYC to SF), and a maximum of 11 hours long-haul driving per day, gives 4 days. That's for a single driver; a team with a sleeper can go further. Call it 2x faster with a truck. Amazon has fulfillment locations all around the US, so even with ground-only shipping they don't need two full days on average to deliver. (Map at http://www.amazonfulfillmentcareers.com/amazon-fulfillment/locations/ http://www.amazonfulfillmentcareers.com/amazon-fulfillment/l... )
- WalterBright 11y ago
  The fulfillment locations also have to be supplied somehow.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Certainly, but that's different topic than the same-day or overnight shipping that you were asking about, no? Currently those fulfillment centers only use trucks. (I spot checked a few Amazon fulfillment areal photographs on Google Maps.) They would have to be relocated on rail lines, or lines moved to them. There would need to be about 4x more centers, since trucks are about 2x faster. Probably more like 6x more, since trucks and roads go places that trains can't get to because of grade limitations. Only you know what 'realistic' means to you. We know it's possible to have a rail system that reaches most towns in the US - that's what we had until the automobile. Many of the right-of-ways still exist, but they were also designed for slower, lighter trains than we have now. And for days with more canned and pickled goods that weren't so time sensitive. Trains don't scale down. Consider a small town grocery store. Currently it will get several different trucks making deliveries - soda, beer, fruit and veg, etc. These make deliveries to many different stores in the area. How does it work if we switch to delivery by rail? Does the train drop off a trailer bundled with all of the daily deliveries? If so, how are thing kept cool that need to be cool? Or are multiple trailers dropped off, and if so, where are they stored and how much room is needed? Does the store need to be next to the tracks?
thesteamboat 11y ago
> How much longer does it take to load/unload a freight train versus a truck? To the extent that both use shipping containers, the process should be identical.
- netfire 11y ago
  Not true, unless the train is only hauling a single container (highly inefficient and impractical). Once a truck is loaded, it can leave. A train may have thousands of containers to load before departing, and may have to wait for other rail traffic before leaving. A truck could be probably be loaded in under an hour. A train would probably still require that the items be loaded on a truck first (unless you have a warehouse on the rail line) and then transferred to a train. That's got to be multi-hour process for both loading and unloading.

by netfire 11y ago

WalterBright 11y ago

If people are willing to pay weight fees that reflect the true cost of fixing the road damage, they can continue to use the trucks. But why should taxpayers pay for 2 day delivery instead of 3 day by rail?

jdc 11y ago
I'd guess job creation, possibly with a side of union influence.
- jdc 11y ago
  Do any of the down voters have another point of view they would like to share?
netfire 11y ago
I'm not suggesting they should. My alternate solution was a toll based system where the trucks would pay extra for roads that can withstand the extra weight. You could just increase the weigh station fees, but then you'd have to make all the lanes be able to withstand the extra weight, and you wouldn't have the extra benefits of safety (a car doesn't stand a chance against a truck in an accident) and efficiency (trucks can't accelerate/decelerate as fast as cars, so they contribute more to traffic congestion).

dalke 11y ago

http://www.bgiworldwide.com/domestic-shipping/rail http://www.bgiworldwide.com/domestic-shipping/rail says "Typical transit time for coast-to-coast delivery is 7 to 10 days." Figuring 44 hours to drive across the country (NYC to SF), and a maximum of 11 hours long-haul driving per day, gives 4 days. That's for a single driver; a team with a sleeper can go further. Call it 2x faster with a truck. Amazon has fulfillment locations all around the US, so even with ground-only shipping they don't need two full days on average to deliver. (Map at http://www.amazonfulfillmentcareers.com/amazon-fulfillment/locations/ http://www.amazonfulfillmentcareers.com/amazon-fulfillment/l... )

WalterBright 11y ago
The fulfillment locations also have to be supplied somehow.
- dalke 11y ago
  Certainly, but that's different topic than the same-day or overnight shipping that you were asking about, no? Currently those fulfillment centers only use trucks. (I spot checked a few Amazon fulfillment areal photographs on Google Maps.) They would have to be relocated on rail lines, or lines moved to them. There would need to be about 4x more centers, since trucks are about 2x faster. Probably more like 6x more, since trucks and roads go places that trains can't get to because of grade limitations. Only you know what 'realistic' means to you. We know it's possible to have a rail system that reaches most towns in the US - that's what we had until the automobile. Many of the right-of-ways still exist, but they were also designed for slower, lighter trains than we have now. And for days with more canned and pickled goods that weren't so time sensitive. Trains don't scale down. Consider a small town grocery store. Currently it will get several different trucks making deliveries - soda, beer, fruit and veg, etc. These make deliveries to many different stores in the area. How does it work if we switch to delivery by rail? Does the train drop off a trailer bundled with all of the daily deliveries? If so, how are thing kept cool that need to be cool? Or are multiple trailers dropped off, and if so, where are they stored and how much room is needed? Does the store need to be next to the tracks?

thesteamboat 11y ago

> How much longer does it take to load/unload a freight train versus a truck? To the extent that both use shipping containers, the process should be identical.

netfire 11y ago
Not true, unless the train is only hauling a single container (highly inefficient and impractical). Once a truck is loaded, it can leave. A train may have thousands of containers to load before departing, and may have to wait for other rail traffic before leaving. A truck could be probably be loaded in under an hour. A train would probably still require that the items be loaded on a truck first (unless you have a warehouse on the rail line) and then transferred to a train. That's got to be multi-hour process for both loading and unloading.