4 ms·

Incidentally there is incorrectly styled example code in this post that breaks out of the bounds of the page.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
lisper 17y ago
Which is further evidence that CSS still should not be used for layout. http://www.flownet.com/ron/css-rant.html http://www.flownet.com/ron/css-rant.html (How do you do links in HN comments? Markdown syntax doesn't seem to work.)
- edd 17y ago
  You write a url with a http:// http:// and it will turn it in to a link for you. See the formatting document[1] for all the formatting available to you. [1]:http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
  - lisper 17y ago
    Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant. What I meant was how do I make a link with some text other than the URL. (Apparently it's not possible in HN comments.)
    - grinich 17y ago
      I think the reason is so you know where the link goes before clicking, which prevents rickrolling.
      - telemachos 17y ago
        Can't help but ask: is rickrolling a serious concern around here? If so, a followup question: Really?
        mcav 17y ago
        1. No. See #2. 2. Yes.
- isleyaardvark 17y ago
  I prefer this rant: http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/02/17/wanted-layout-system/ http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/02/17/wanted-layout-s... CSS still has the advantage over tables of better separating content from presentation. A big problem with CSS is it's still awkward to deal with layout, so it's somewhat understandable some people just prefer to give up and use tables.
  - lisper 17y ago
    That is indeed a better rant :-)
- rimantas 17y ago
  Only if you do not know CSS or do not know the capabilities of modern browsers. But in this case you should be not writing HTML or CSS at all.
  - rimantas 17y ago
    I guess I should clarify a bit: every modern browser (and in this case IE8 is also counted in) has support for display: table-* property. On the other hand, 2003 was the last year when I did layout using table. I did pixel-perfect cross browser layouts with CSS five years ago, and they had to work in IE5 back then. So yes, I do know what I am talking about and stand by my position.
    - fhars 17y ago
      I did pixel-perfect cross browser layouts with CSS five years ago Using just semantic markup, or with lots of divs within divs that have no justification to be there except to allow styles to be attached to them? "Great pyramids of DIV" based layout is at most marginally better than table based layout.
      - rimantas 17y ago
        Yep, mostly semantic markup. Sure then you could not avoid some extra div there and here, but that did not come even near the <td> mess. I've tried to stay away from divitis and classitis as much as possible.
- GHFigs 17y ago
  And your rant is still misinformed, one-sided, and extremely overreaching in its conclusions.
  - ubernostrum 17y ago
    Sadly, you probably won't win. People who can recite from memory dozens of combinations of obscure compiler flags to make their code build have collectively decided that CSS is just too hard and inconsistent to learn and work with. (or, in the case of the particular HN username here, people who'd like you to think they know all the differences between multiple Lisp families and multiple implementations within families)
    - lisper 17y ago
      Are you referring to me? I certainly don't want anyone to think that I "know all the differences between multiple Lisp families and multiple implementations within families". Life is much too short to spend a lot of cycles on trivia.
walkon 17y ago
For me it is easier to understand that line without it wrapping.
- nopassrecover 17y ago
  Perhaps but it's visually incorrect. If readability was the primary concern then the extending line should have a background, ideally in a way that fits the design (say having the appearance of a tab on the side of a notebook).
josefresco 17y ago
Die troll die. Seriously that's the lamest sort of reply we see here on Hacker News. Sniping other peoples work is low (this isn't Slashdot).
- nopassrecover 17y ago
  When your post is about your expertise in CSS you better be demonstrating expertise in CSS. While we're on the subject of adding little value, the impression I got from the article was that this was yet another Top-10 style compilation of commonsense that you could find on other sites like A List Apart. Instead, I would prefer to read more about the OP's actual experiences and growth, i.e. something unique and original. There is nothing troll-like about criticism, particularly when an improvement is suggested. Instead, I would look towards yourself and your "Slashdot" witch-cry.
  - josefresco 17y ago
    So only those who are perfect are allowed in a debate? Somehow (despite my karma hit) I doubt I'm the only one who doesn't believe that. Sometimes we can discuss ideas even if we aren't fully compliant ourselves.
    - nopassrecover 17y ago
      You've twisted my intention and words and the karma hit is probably because of your unsupported attack. I actually assumed the author had some authority and was pointing out a) a small error needed correcting and b) that even the best have trouble taming CSS. For reference i'm slowly building up articles about things I don't pretend to be an authority on which you can happily attack in due course.
RevRal 17y ago
I own a coffee mug with a similar problem ! http://www.zazzle.com/css_is_awesome_mug-168716435071981928 http://www.zazzle.com/css_is_awesome_mug-168716435071981928
- nopassrecover 17y ago
  Hahaha love it!

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

Which is further evidence that CSS still should not be used for layout. http://www.flownet.com/ron/css-rant.html http://www.flownet.com/ron/css-rant.html (How do you do links in HN comments? Markdown syntax doesn't seem to work.)

edd 17y ago
You write a url with a http:// http:// and it will turn it in to a link for you. See the formatting document[1] for all the formatting available to you. [1]:http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
- lisper 17y ago
  Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant. What I meant was how do I make a link with some text other than the URL. (Apparently it's not possible in HN comments.)
  - grinich 17y ago
    I think the reason is so you know where the link goes before clicking, which prevents rickrolling.
    - telemachos 17y ago
      Can't help but ask: is rickrolling a serious concern around here? If so, a followup question: Really?
      - mcav 17y ago
        1. No. See #2. 2. Yes.
isleyaardvark 17y ago
I prefer this rant: http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/02/17/wanted-layout-system/ http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/02/17/wanted-layout-s... CSS still has the advantage over tables of better separating content from presentation. A big problem with CSS is it's still awkward to deal with layout, so it's somewhat understandable some people just prefer to give up and use tables.
- lisper 17y ago
  That is indeed a better rant :-)
rimantas 17y ago
Only if you do not know CSS or do not know the capabilities of modern browsers. But in this case you should be not writing HTML or CSS at all.
- rimantas 17y ago
  I guess I should clarify a bit: every modern browser (and in this case IE8 is also counted in) has support for display: table-* property. On the other hand, 2003 was the last year when I did layout using table. I did pixel-perfect cross browser layouts with CSS five years ago, and they had to work in IE5 back then. So yes, I do know what I am talking about and stand by my position.
  - fhars 17y ago
    I did pixel-perfect cross browser layouts with CSS five years ago Using just semantic markup, or with lots of divs within divs that have no justification to be there except to allow styles to be attached to them? "Great pyramids of DIV" based layout is at most marginally better than table based layout.
    - rimantas 17y ago
      Yep, mostly semantic markup. Sure then you could not avoid some extra div there and here, but that did not come even near the <td> mess. I've tried to stay away from divitis and classitis as much as possible.
GHFigs 17y ago
And your rant is still misinformed, one-sided, and extremely overreaching in its conclusions.
- ubernostrum 17y ago
  Sadly, you probably won't win. People who can recite from memory dozens of combinations of obscure compiler flags to make their code build have collectively decided that CSS is just too hard and inconsistent to learn and work with. (or, in the case of the particular HN username here, people who'd like you to think they know all the differences between multiple Lisp families and multiple implementations within families)
  - lisper 17y ago
    Are you referring to me? I certainly don't want anyone to think that I "know all the differences between multiple Lisp families and multiple implementations within families". Life is much too short to spend a lot of cycles on trivia.

walkon 17y ago

For me it is easier to understand that line without it wrapping.

nopassrecover 17y ago
Perhaps but it's visually incorrect. If readability was the primary concern then the extending line should have a background, ideally in a way that fits the design (say having the appearance of a tab on the side of a notebook).

josefresco 17y ago

Die troll die. Seriously that's the lamest sort of reply we see here on Hacker News. Sniping other peoples work is low (this isn't Slashdot).

nopassrecover 17y ago
When your post is about your expertise in CSS you better be demonstrating expertise in CSS. While we're on the subject of adding little value, the impression I got from the article was that this was yet another Top-10 style compilation of commonsense that you could find on other sites like A List Apart. Instead, I would prefer to read more about the OP's actual experiences and growth, i.e. something unique and original. There is nothing troll-like about criticism, particularly when an improvement is suggested. Instead, I would look towards yourself and your "Slashdot" witch-cry.
- josefresco 17y ago
  So only those who are perfect are allowed in a debate? Somehow (despite my karma hit) I doubt I'm the only one who doesn't believe that. Sometimes we can discuss ideas even if we aren't fully compliant ourselves.
  - nopassrecover 17y ago
    You've twisted my intention and words and the karma hit is probably because of your unsupported attack. I actually assumed the author had some authority and was pointing out a) a small error needed correcting and b) that even the best have trouble taming CSS. For reference i'm slowly building up articles about things I don't pretend to be an authority on which you can happily attack in due course.

RevRal 17y ago

I own a coffee mug with a similar problem ! http://www.zazzle.com/css_is_awesome_mug-168716435071981928 http://www.zazzle.com/css_is_awesome_mug-168716435071981928

nopassrecover 17y ago
Hahaha love it!