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Actually, those are the very languages I had in mind. Perl too. Yes, they have many more active developers than Smalltalk. But you know what? I was part of the

by cwp 11y ago

Actually, those are the very languages I had in mind. Perl too. Yes, they have many more active developers than Smalltalk. But you know what? I was part of the Ruby community before Rails, and it was tiny. That was after it had been around for 10 years. So I'll say it again. If you want to create a new language, go for it! But I wouldn't sneer at Smalltalk and Scheme in the process. Those communities are relatively small, but they're still huge compared to your brand-new language, and they will be for decades. And if you judge language success by innovation and influence rather than developers... well, you have even bigger shoes to fill.

coldtea 11y ago
>Actually, those are the very languages I had in mind. Perl too. Yes, they have many more active developers than Smalltalk. But you know what? I was part of the Ruby community before Rails, and it was tiny. That was after it had been around for 10 years. So? Languages might take a while to catch on. Ruby has a huge community and lots of jobs now. And Python has had that even without something like Rails to dominate adoption. Perl was also huge back in the day. As a counterexample Dart is nowhere near even Ruby pre-Rails was, even though it's from a major vendor. And of course C, C++ etc didn't succeed because they had the backing of a major vendor, like Java or C# did.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  > And of course C, C++ etc didn't succeed because they had the backing of a major vendor, like Java or C# did C - AT&T, UNIX vendors C++ - Almost all C compiler vendors adopted it. CORBA and Windows Development helped it.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Having support from third party vendors is not the same as succeeding because you have the backing of a major vendor (and especially one who created you), like Java or C# or Swift.
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      C would have been a footnote in the history of programming languages if AT&T didn't offered the code to a few universities, whose students created the UNIX workstations like in Sun's case. In the late 80's the language had zero value in the hobbyist world. The few compilers that existed generated crappy code, were not even K&R compatible and only mattered to those that had access to UNIX either at work or university.
    - skissane 11y ago
      C was invented at Bell Labs, a subsidiary of AT&T. Surely that counts as "backing of a major vendor"? C spread along with UNIX, which AT&T as vendor licensed to many other companies. It was also helped along by AT&T's own use of C and UNIX in its internal systems, especially telephone switch development.

by cwp 11y ago

coldtea 11y ago

>Actually, those are the very languages I had in mind. Perl too. Yes, they have many more active developers than Smalltalk. But you know what? I was part of the Ruby community before Rails, and it was tiny. That was after it had been around for 10 years. So? Languages might take a while to catch on. Ruby has a huge community and lots of jobs now. And Python has had that even without something like Rails to dominate adoption. Perl was also huge back in the day. As a counterexample Dart is nowhere near even Ruby pre-Rails was, even though it's from a major vendor. And of course C, C++ etc didn't succeed because they had the backing of a major vendor, like Java or C# did.

pjmlp 11y ago
> And of course C, C++ etc didn't succeed because they had the backing of a major vendor, like Java or C# did C - AT&T, UNIX vendors C++ - Almost all C compiler vendors adopted it. CORBA and Windows Development helped it.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Having support from third party vendors is not the same as succeeding because you have the backing of a major vendor (and especially one who created you), like Java or C# or Swift.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    C would have been a footnote in the history of programming languages if AT&T didn't offered the code to a few universities, whose students created the UNIX workstations like in Sun's case. In the late 80's the language had zero value in the hobbyist world. The few compilers that existed generated crappy code, were not even K&R compatible and only mattered to those that had access to UNIX either at work or university.
  - skissane 11y ago
    C was invented at Bell Labs, a subsidiary of AT&T. Surely that counts as "backing of a major vendor"? C spread along with UNIX, which AT&T as vendor licensed to many other companies. It was also helped along by AT&T's own use of C and UNIX in its internal systems, especially telephone switch development.