4 ms·

Mostly nonsense article with no answers. Get rid of carpool lanes and add some dang lanes in the meantime.

hn9780470248775 11y ago
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/ http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/
koenigdavidmj 11y ago
The I-5 HOV lanes in Seattle carry almost as many people per unit of time as the rest of the highway combined. If you're feeling daring enough to argue, note very carefully that I said "people", not "vehicles".
- buckbova 11y ago
  The article is for LA. Anyway, it's a traffic system. You open that lane up to general traffic and it unburdens the other lanes.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    Except now you're adding the traffic that was there to all the other lanes, and you're adding cars at the same time. The key to traffic is to REDUCE the amount of cars on the road, not increase it.
chadgeidel 11y ago
It's pretty well known that adding lanes actually increases congestion. Here are two cited articles that came up in a quick search: * http://transportationist.org/2015/03/02/elements-of-access-induced-demand/ http://transportationist.org/2015/03/02/elements-of-access-i... * http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/roadbuilding-futility.html http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/roadbuilding-futility.ht...
- buckbova 11y ago
  This doesn't prove anything. Lanes are added a decade or more after there is a need and these cities are generally growing anyway with an existing growing demand that isn't being met by current infrastructure. With this extra congestion it is moving more people than before.
- tomohawk 11y ago
  In Northern VA they have the #1 or #2 worst traffic in the country. They knew there was going to be growth, but no roads were built to handle it and no rights of way were purchased when they were easy to purchase. I know someone who worked in the Federal Highway Admin at the time (late 60's early 70's) and recalls how they tried to do rational planning for the expected growth but were shot down. They were told that building roads would just cause growth. Now they have had the growth and don't have the roads. That's definitely worse than having both. Contrast this with the other side of DC where MD put in the roads and set aside rights of way. They are way better off. Not perfect by any stretch, but better.
  - TheCoelacanth 11y ago
    NoVA's traffic is bad because of suburban sprawl. Car travel simply doesn't scale to that level, no matter how many roads you build. The only part that did anything correctly is Arlington, which focused it's development in areas that are walkable and can be serviced by mass transit, resulting in decreased traffic volumes on most roads in spite of a large increase in population.
s73v3r 11y ago
Every study ever done has shown that getting rid of carpool lanes is just about the worst thing you could do. All those people that were in the carpool lane are now in with the general traffic, and they're not carpooling. So there are even more cars.
- buckbova 11y ago
  The studies I've seen suggesting converting these lanes to toll lanes that allow for HOV free passes. The lanes serve a political purpose and do not solve an engineering issue. The facts are mass the conversion of single car drives to avid carpooled never happened.

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/ http://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

The I-5 HOV lanes in Seattle carry almost as many people per unit of time as the rest of the highway combined. If you're feeling daring enough to argue, note very carefully that I said "people", not "vehicles".

buckbova 11y ago
The article is for LA. Anyway, it's a traffic system. You open that lane up to general traffic and it unburdens the other lanes.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  Except now you're adding the traffic that was there to all the other lanes, and you're adding cars at the same time. The key to traffic is to REDUCE the amount of cars on the road, not increase it.

chadgeidel 11y ago

It's pretty well known that adding lanes actually increases congestion. Here are two cited articles that came up in a quick search: * http://transportationist.org/2015/03/02/elements-of-access-induced-demand/ http://transportationist.org/2015/03/02/elements-of-access-i... * http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/roadbuilding-futility.html http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/roadbuilding-futility.ht...

buckbova 11y ago
This doesn't prove anything. Lanes are added a decade or more after there is a need and these cities are generally growing anyway with an existing growing demand that isn't being met by current infrastructure. With this extra congestion it is moving more people than before.
tomohawk 11y ago
In Northern VA they have the #1 or #2 worst traffic in the country. They knew there was going to be growth, but no roads were built to handle it and no rights of way were purchased when they were easy to purchase. I know someone who worked in the Federal Highway Admin at the time (late 60's early 70's) and recalls how they tried to do rational planning for the expected growth but were shot down. They were told that building roads would just cause growth. Now they have had the growth and don't have the roads. That's definitely worse than having both. Contrast this with the other side of DC where MD put in the roads and set aside rights of way. They are way better off. Not perfect by any stretch, but better.
- TheCoelacanth 11y ago
  NoVA's traffic is bad because of suburban sprawl. Car travel simply doesn't scale to that level, no matter how many roads you build. The only part that did anything correctly is Arlington, which focused it's development in areas that are walkable and can be serviced by mass transit, resulting in decreased traffic volumes on most roads in spite of a large increase in population.

s73v3r 11y ago

Every study ever done has shown that getting rid of carpool lanes is just about the worst thing you could do. All those people that were in the carpool lane are now in with the general traffic, and they're not carpooling. So there are even more cars.

buckbova 11y ago
The studies I've seen suggesting converting these lanes to toll lanes that allow for HOV free passes. The lanes serve a political purpose and do not solve an engineering issue. The facts are mass the conversion of single car drives to avid carpooled never happened.