4 ms·

I wonder why consumers put up with all the add-on crap that comes with a Windows PC. I guess maybe they just don't know any other real choices exist? It's bee

by brk 17y ago

I wonder why consumers put up with all the add-on crap that comes with a Windows PC. I guess maybe they just don't know any other real choices exist? It's been many years since I setup a commercial Windows-based machine (and the non-commercial installs I've done have mostly been for VMs for testing purposes). But, I remember those machines from Dell having a ton of random extraneous crap already loaded. Crap icons all over the desktop. Crap-ware that auto-launched and made the system tray area extend 1/4 of the way across the taskbar, and so on. Completely ridiculous. I bought a new iMac for my wife a couple of weeks ago. Took it out of the box, turned it on, and it was (as usual) a smooth and sane experience. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I an totally anti-Microsoft, or completely Apple fan-boy. I just choose to use and buy the product that offers the best experience for my money, and Microsoft hasn't been part of that equation for a very long time now.

Tichy 17y ago
I knew somebody would mention Apple. Sadly, Apple is not that much better - after all, you are almost forced to register with Apple (iTunes, MobileMe, etc) to reap the full benefits. In fact with my Mac I just gave in and registered, which I always managed to avoid with other PCs. It's just that they limit themselves to Apple products, and Apple fans cherish that rather than being annoyed by it. Try installing iTunes on Windows, and you get lots of crap along with it, too (Quicktime, some Apple Software updater background thread, iPod connector background process even if you don't have an iPod, Bayonet-Networking or what it is called, and so on). Really, they are NOT better here. Besides, I've had very good experiences with Dell. At least they still provide the install disk for Windows. Maybe it depends on whether you buy from the consumer or the business lines, though. If there really is any pollution, the first step should be reinstalling the OS from scratch, without all the crapware (but as I said, I didn't have to do that with my Dell purchases so far).
- brk 17y ago
  MobileMe? Really? I've never registered for that, and I don't think I'm benefit deficient. iTunes, only if you have an iPod, and I think most people recognize what they are opting in to if you go down that road. (Is the Zune any better in that regard?). I've bought Dell and HP home and corporate desktop machines (again, though not in the last few years). Both were burdened with a lot of pre-installed junk. If I have to reinstall the OS on a new PC, I think that is sort of a non-win. I suppose it is a matter of perspective, but the Apple machines I've purchased have not come burdened with a ton of 3rd party crap, and have not made removal of what IS installed (iWork as an example) overly difficult if you choose to do so.
  - Tichy 17y ago
    I haven't registered with MobileMe either, it was just an example that Apple DOES try to push things on you. And you mention the difference: one is 3rd party stuff, Apple pushes Apple. It still pushes. Again it is the useless comparison between "Apple" and "PCs". There are bad PC vendors and, OK, less bad PC vendors. Shop smart, and you don't have to put up with preinstalled crapware. Not even with Dell. "Overly difficult" is entirely in the eye of the beholder...
    - stcredzero 17y ago
      Does "Shop Smart" mean "Reinstall the OS from Scratch?" Apple pushes Apple. It still pushes Difference between Apple and Dell: Apple prompts you fewer times, doesn't try to make you feel insecure about opting out, and looks respectable throughout the whole experience. Last time I set up a PC, it was like passing an aisle of carnival hawkers.
      - notauser 17y ago
        In many ways it's more irritating when it happens with Apple software because they have set expectations about usability higher. I _know_ I'm going to need to zap a new PC, so it doesn't bother me so much. Compare to OS X where I was promised a good experience. I can't even do a clean install of OS X as the junk is baked into the operating system.
        mmt 17y ago
        I _know_ I'm going to need to zap a new PC This would seem to support the article's thesis of degradation of trust. Still, I would say that the ability, let alone expectation, to reinstall an OS, marks you as being more technically apt than the average user.
      - Tichy 17y ago
        With my recent purchases I did not have to reinstall from scratch. I suppose Dell still tries to sell you Norton or something like that in their PC configurator, but if you don't chose it, it should not be on the PC. They are capable of learning... The worst experience I had was with an expensive Sony Vaio Notebook (which did not have an OS installation CD either). Luckily I could send it back. But if you buy Sony, you must not complain, after the rootkit debacle.
- DougBTX 17y ago
  to reap the full benefits Perhaps that is the difference: register with Apple, get more benefits; register with Norton, have your computer lock up weekly while it does a full disk scan.
  - Tichy 17y ago
    "register with Apple, get more benefits" They are just better at making their users pay for stuff. And it is not only benefits. I don't remember exactly what it was anymore, but my feeling really was that I had to give in and register my Mac. Usually I never do that. However, by no means do I want to defend Norton. They are not even worth discussing, they should just be purged from the earth.
    - DougBTX 17y ago
      Yes, Apple really are good at selling things. I don't know if anyone else gets this, but I'm sure there is an Unwrapping Apple Product smell.
- isleyaardvark 17y ago
  I've only seen one place in iTunes where I've been asked to register, and that has a very obvious "Never Register" button. I don't even remember seeing any sort of MobileMe registration, much less use it. I'd say it's signicantly better than the experiences I've had with other PC vendors, and I think others would agree. One (possibly 2) places where Apple asks for registration as opposed to how many in a typical PC? 4? 6? I'm not going to argue about installing iTunes on Windows, but it's not relevant to comparing the out-of-the-box experiences, is it?

by brk 17y ago

Tichy 17y ago

I knew somebody would mention Apple. Sadly, Apple is not that much better - after all, you are almost forced to register with Apple (iTunes, MobileMe, etc) to reap the full benefits. In fact with my Mac I just gave in and registered, which I always managed to avoid with other PCs. It's just that they limit themselves to Apple products, and Apple fans cherish that rather than being annoyed by it. Try installing iTunes on Windows, and you get lots of crap along with it, too (Quicktime, some Apple Software updater background thread, iPod connector background process even if you don't have an iPod, Bayonet-Networking or what it is called, and so on). Really, they are NOT better here. Besides, I've had very good experiences with Dell. At least they still provide the install disk for Windows. Maybe it depends on whether you buy from the consumer or the business lines, though. If there really is any pollution, the first step should be reinstalling the OS from scratch, without all the crapware (but as I said, I didn't have to do that with my Dell purchases so far).

brk 17y ago
MobileMe? Really? I've never registered for that, and I don't think I'm benefit deficient. iTunes, only if you have an iPod, and I think most people recognize what they are opting in to if you go down that road. (Is the Zune any better in that regard?). I've bought Dell and HP home and corporate desktop machines (again, though not in the last few years). Both were burdened with a lot of pre-installed junk. If I have to reinstall the OS on a new PC, I think that is sort of a non-win. I suppose it is a matter of perspective, but the Apple machines I've purchased have not come burdened with a ton of 3rd party crap, and have not made removal of what IS installed (iWork as an example) overly difficult if you choose to do so.
- Tichy 17y ago
  I haven't registered with MobileMe either, it was just an example that Apple DOES try to push things on you. And you mention the difference: one is 3rd party stuff, Apple pushes Apple. It still pushes. Again it is the useless comparison between "Apple" and "PCs". There are bad PC vendors and, OK, less bad PC vendors. Shop smart, and you don't have to put up with preinstalled crapware. Not even with Dell. "Overly difficult" is entirely in the eye of the beholder...
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    Does "Shop Smart" mean "Reinstall the OS from Scratch?" Apple pushes Apple. It still pushes Difference between Apple and Dell: Apple prompts you fewer times, doesn't try to make you feel insecure about opting out, and looks respectable throughout the whole experience. Last time I set up a PC, it was like passing an aisle of carnival hawkers.
    - notauser 17y ago
      In many ways it's more irritating when it happens with Apple software because they have set expectations about usability higher. I _know_ I'm going to need to zap a new PC, so it doesn't bother me so much. Compare to OS X where I was promised a good experience. I can't even do a clean install of OS X as the junk is baked into the operating system.
      - mmt 17y ago
        I _know_ I'm going to need to zap a new PC This would seem to support the article's thesis of degradation of trust. Still, I would say that the ability, let alone expectation, to reinstall an OS, marks you as being more technically apt than the average user.
    - Tichy 17y ago
      With my recent purchases I did not have to reinstall from scratch. I suppose Dell still tries to sell you Norton or something like that in their PC configurator, but if you don't chose it, it should not be on the PC. They are capable of learning... The worst experience I had was with an expensive Sony Vaio Notebook (which did not have an OS installation CD either). Luckily I could send it back. But if you buy Sony, you must not complain, after the rootkit debacle.
DougBTX 17y ago
to reap the full benefits Perhaps that is the difference: register with Apple, get more benefits; register with Norton, have your computer lock up weekly while it does a full disk scan.
- Tichy 17y ago
  "register with Apple, get more benefits" They are just better at making their users pay for stuff. And it is not only benefits. I don't remember exactly what it was anymore, but my feeling really was that I had to give in and register my Mac. Usually I never do that. However, by no means do I want to defend Norton. They are not even worth discussing, they should just be purged from the earth.
  - DougBTX 17y ago
    Yes, Apple really are good at selling things. I don't know if anyone else gets this, but I'm sure there is an Unwrapping Apple Product smell.
isleyaardvark 17y ago
I've only seen one place in iTunes where I've been asked to register, and that has a very obvious "Never Register" button. I don't even remember seeing any sort of MobileMe registration, much less use it. I'd say it's signicantly better than the experiences I've had with other PC vendors, and I think others would agree. One (possibly 2) places where Apple asks for registration as opposed to how many in a typical PC? 4? 6? I'm not going to argue about installing iTunes on Windows, but it's not relevant to comparing the out-of-the-box experiences, is it?