5 ms·

> So is the problem that they specifically hire young women for this? It's completely legal to hire people based on looks for positions that require it, e.g. s

by tajen 11y ago

> So is the problem that they specifically hire young women for this? It's completely legal to hire people based on looks for positions that require it, e.g. salespeople, models, "experience managers". It doesn't mean we should do it. Especially not as we're evolving towards a developed, enhanced society. Many SV startups display a website with 50% women programmers... all of them cute and young. We know very well they're not here to attract more women to programming. They're here to bias men into believing it's a balanced workplace where it's fun to work and where he might find a soulmate. It has an impact on the applicant's expectation. Of course once males are recruited, it's a huge legal risk to date on the workplace, and a human interaction with a hired hostress isn't genuine.

enraged_camel 11y ago
>>Many SV startups display a website with 50% women programmers... all of them cute and young. We know very well they're not here to attract more women to programming. Sorry, but... how do you know?
- tajen 11y ago
  Ok, I'll open the question: What is the effect of a website with 50% cute females on a male programmer? I've always assumed it was supposed to have an effect on me (male), which is has.
  - lbotos 11y ago
    Our team is ~45% women. The women on our team are exactly that, on our team. They aren't there to "attract male talent."
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Many SV startups display a website with 50% women programmers... all of them cute and young. And 50% male programmers, also cute and young. > We know very well they're not here to attract more women to programming. You could interpret the cute/young males as aspirational images for males, and the cute/young women as bait for (presumably, heterosexual) males... Or you could interpret both groups as bait for males of differing sexualities. Or you could interpret the cute young males as bait for heterosexual females and the cute young females as aspirational images for females. Or you could interpret all the images as aspirational. Or... "We know very well they're not here to attract more women..." of any of the images, including the cute/young females, requires some support.
jeremysmyth 11y ago
It's completely legal to hire people based on looks for positions that require it, e.g. salespeople, models, "experience managers". It doesn't mean we should do it. Especially not as we're evolving towards a developed, enhanced society. We're aspiring to such a society, not evolving. Evolution is an outcome, not a direction. It's not possible to say what we're evolving toward, except inasmuch as we are now closer to that ideal than we were 20 years ago. Not only that, but I'm not sure that's true. Today's norms are those that survived yesterday. The ones we think we want tomorrow are not always the ones we'll have. When sex sells, sex sells, regardless of whether you want it to sell or not. What has happened over the last 20 and more years is more a fine tuning of how to use sex to sell, rather than removal of sex from the sales process.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
atrophying 11y ago
> Many SV startups display a website with 50% women programmers... all of them cute and young. We know very well they're not here to attract more women to programming. Really? Are you so shortsighted as to think that an attractive young woman can't actually be a programmer, and that her only actual job function is to appeal to her male coworkers? Despite the fact that the industry skews towards the young and attractive in the first place? This attitude right here is why so many women have problems in STEM. If we're even remotely attractive we're considered to only be there to appeal to our male coworkers. If we're not attractive we're ignored and belittled. In either case, there's no acceptance of our technical skills. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe women programmers don't exist for the sole purpose of entertaining men, and that the cute and young women you see might actually be - wait for it - programmers?

by tajen 11y ago

enraged_camel 11y ago

>>Many SV startups display a website with 50% women programmers... all of them cute and young. We know very well they're not here to attract more women to programming. Sorry, but... how do you know?

tajen 11y ago
Ok, I'll open the question: What is the effect of a website with 50% cute females on a male programmer? I've always assumed it was supposed to have an effect on me (male), which is has.
- lbotos 11y ago
  Our team is ~45% women. The women on our team are exactly that, on our team. They aren't there to "attract male talent."

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Many SV startups display a website with 50% women programmers... all of them cute and young. And 50% male programmers, also cute and young. > We know very well they're not here to attract more women to programming. You could interpret the cute/young males as aspirational images for males, and the cute/young women as bait for (presumably, heterosexual) males... Or you could interpret both groups as bait for males of differing sexualities. Or you could interpret the cute young males as bait for heterosexual females and the cute young females as aspirational images for females. Or you could interpret all the images as aspirational. Or... "We know very well they're not here to attract more women..." of any of the images, including the cute/young females, requires some support.

jeremysmyth 11y ago

It's completely legal to hire people based on looks for positions that require it, e.g. salespeople, models, "experience managers". It doesn't mean we should do it. Especially not as we're evolving towards a developed, enhanced society. We're aspiring to such a society, not evolving. Evolution is an outcome, not a direction. It's not possible to say what we're evolving toward, except inasmuch as we are now closer to that ideal than we were 20 years ago. Not only that, but I'm not sure that's true. Today's norms are those that survived yesterday. The ones we think we want tomorrow are not always the ones we'll have. When sex sells, sex sells, regardless of whether you want it to sell or not. What has happened over the last 20 and more years is more a fine tuning of how to use sex to sell, rather than removal of sex from the sales process.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

atrophying 11y ago

> Many SV startups display a website with 50% women programmers... all of them cute and young. We know very well they're not here to attract more women to programming. Really? Are you so shortsighted as to think that an attractive young woman can't actually be a programmer, and that her only actual job function is to appeal to her male coworkers? Despite the fact that the industry skews towards the young and attractive in the first place? This attitude right here is why so many women have problems in STEM. If we're even remotely attractive we're considered to only be there to appeal to our male coworkers. If we're not attractive we're ignored and belittled. In either case, there's no acceptance of our technical skills. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe women programmers don't exist for the sole purpose of entertaining men, and that the cute and young women you see might actually be - wait for it - programmers?