7 ms·

Spotify Just Got Real Creepy with the Data It Collects on You

60 points by Phoenix26 11y ago

jamesblonde 11y ago
Apple are just getting dirty in the music business now. They're telling their favorite journalists about Spotify's new privacy policy - like a journalist would ever investigate such a thing!
- Someone 11y ago
  "Upon opening the Spotify app up this morning, your reporter was greeted with a request to agree to the new conditions." So Apple hacked the Spotify app to pop up a message announcing the new privacy policy? On iOS, Android, or both? Either way, that's quite an extraordinary claim. I find the idea that Spotify made the change itself and that tech journalists routinely check for changes in privacy policies searching for something to write about much more plausible. So, please give some evidence that this is what happened.
  - richmarr 11y ago
    > So Apple hacked... Think you misunderstood that aspect of jamesblonde's comment. He's suggesting the journalist is pushing Apple's PR for them. It does happen, journalists often use content PR firms send them. I have no idea if it happened in this case.
- jagermo 11y ago
  Not really. Brews is covering topics like privacy, so the updated policy and the additional permissions might have peeked his interest. http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/
jalfresi 11y ago
Is this for real? I pay £10 a month to avoid this crap and now I'm lumped in as well? Screw this, I'm off to Apple Music.
- philliphaydon 11y ago
  I moved to deezer. Waiting for android support for apple music. Spotify are gone for me when they ruined their desktop app.
  - charlesray 11y ago
    You're complaining about Spotify's desktop app and yet you'd rather use iTunes? That's rich.
    - jalfresi 11y ago
      If it's not farming out your private data to third-parties, it already has a killer feature for me.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
  - richmarr 11y ago
    > android support for apple music Is that a thing? I thought Apple Music existed only to push iDevices.
    - sehr 11y ago
      It's been part of Apple musics announcements since the very beginning
- charlesray 11y ago
  "I pay £10 a month to avoid this crap" I don't understand this concept. I pay $10 a month get rid of ads, to be able to use the mobile app, and to get higher quality streams. There was never any reason to believe being a paid member had any impact on the data Spotify collects from you.
  - jalfresi 11y ago
joopxiv 11y ago
"Upon opening the Spotify app up this morning..." "FORBES contacted Spotify for a response and is awaiting comment." This tells you exactly how much time they waited for Spotify to respond. This is 'iterative journalism' at its worst: publish first, investigate later! Completely disgusting.
- beyti 11y ago
  If the article is created based on the update from the privacy policy, the last sentence only means that they're just awaiting response from spotify if they'd like to say something. They're not asking anything, just showing the updates to readers; and IMHO it's a nice kind of journalism for me.
- jamesblonde 11y ago
  Apple wrote the article for them. Forbes edited it and published it. That's the real story here, IMO.
  - benihana 11y ago
    Yeah you already said that elsewhere, also without any kind of proof or even a hint that it might be true.
    - jamesblonde 11y ago
      Dude, that's how the real world works. Hacks do not read updates to privacy policies. They get a tip-off and summary of what to write. I don't need proof. That's how it works.
      - mnem 11y ago
        Ah, you just know the truth. You should apply to become a judge. It'd speed the court system up.
      - cholantesh 11y ago
        It being tinfoil?
jagermo 11y ago
I just wanted to note that forbes uses at least 16 trackers in this article (and does not tell you about it). I have no problem with journalists pointing out flaws, but especially forbes likes to know a lot about its readers.
- merijnv 11y ago
  FYI, I opened up the privacy policy from my Spotify install (I updated yesterday, I think?) and none of this is mentioned in it.
- lowmagnet 11y ago
  With the default uBlock and uMatrix rules I use, the article just shows a spinner. I have to enable forbesimg.com that loads article thumbnails and the main css, along with 'vendor' and 'scripts' js.
tempestn 11y ago
Sensor data could make sense to pick appropriate music based on activity. Perhaps the idea with the GPS is the same, although personally I'd still prefer not to share that.
- Guyag 11y ago
  I believe this is the case - they have a mode (so I'm told) that will choose music based on your current running pace.
Guyag 11y ago
Companies need to take a new approach to the permissions they request - especially on Android where these are explicitly shown to the user. Often there are innocuous purposes behind them, but it's rarely immediately clear and results in people jumping to conclusions. Companies should be more explicit as to the reasons they request permissions.
- ProblemFactory 11y ago
  The good news is that from Android 6.0, permissions will be more dynamic: https://developer.android.com/preview/features/runtime-permissions.html https://developer.android.com/preview/features/runtime-permi... Apps can ask for permissions only if/when they are actually needed for a niche feature, and the user can reject or revoke each permission individually.
ruuki 11y ago
in general, i really don't like still being a product although i'm paying for subscription.
Oletros 11y ago
When he talks about mobile app, does he talks about the iOS one? i have opened the app on Android, gone to the privacy policies and I don't see any of those things he talks about. I have privacy policy in Spanish
- danielsamuels 11y ago
  I had the new privacy policy appear when I opened the app this morning and had to accept it to continue. Probably just rolling out over time.
axx 11y ago
I'm wondering how this would work with Apples privacy features? Before any App can access your location, contacts, picture and so on, you need to give it permission.
- ibbb 11y ago
  Exactly, it specifically states: With your permission, we may... Much about nothing...
danielsamuels 11y ago
I would guess that the new sensor usage and GPS data is for the Spotify Running feature which was announced a while back. From what I remember, it changes your songs based on your running speed. Makes sense to require this additional data.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
I don't use spotify and I usually don't like social anything (except HN, of course). However... Surely there are reasonable explanations. Let's break this down. GPS and motion sensors. Why could they want this? Maybe they will switch up your play list when you go for that run. Seems plausible. Contacts. Ok, everything is social, so maybe they want to send your current track to other spotify users in your contacts. Seems plausible. Photos. Not sure about this one. Sharing your information with partners. Does spotify play ads? wouldn't this be a standard part of sharing data with Apple and Google's ad network? I'm not defending them, but this is the social world we live in. You either find alternatives or deal with apps that pack social features in.
- charlesray 11y ago
  I THINK, and I could be totally wrong, but I THINK that on at least some platforms, when an app requires access to information stored locally on your phone, it's an all-or-nothing thing. So if Spotify needs permissions to local media files (which it obviously does) then there's no way to grant that without also giving it access to your local photos, for example. Could be totally wrong, I don't know, but I remember hearing that several times.
  - JustSomeNobody 11y ago
    That would make sense.
    - charlesray 11y ago
      Awhile ago there was some major app, I think Facebook, that updated its Android version, and everyone freaked out because the new version required a seemingly-outrageous level of access. Some kind soul went down the whole list and explained by everything it requested was critical to the functionality of the app, and I seem to recall one of those explanations involving access to local files. Also, people need to take a step back and look at these privacy notices for what they really are: legal liability waivers. When Spotify says they are allowed to give your data to third parties, they are not saying "we are selling your data to third party marketers as we speak." They're saying, "if this data ends up in the hands of someone other than Spotify, you cannot sue us." That's it.
tmaly 11y ago
ok lets say this is true. If I want to continue using Spotify, how do I block them from looking at my pictures and contacts on a stock nexus 5 running a stock android 4.4.3 ?
tripzilch 11y ago
> Local law may require that you seek the consent of your contacts to provide their personal information to Spotify Uhm so how does that work? I'm not a Spotify user, but quite a few people who have me in their contact list definitely are. Let's say I don't consent. Which I don't. Will they have to cancel their Spotify subscription? Doesn't that responsibility fall with Spotify just as much? Because in that case, I'll gladly provide my contact list, for Spotify's one time exclusive usage with which they can cancel all the subscriptions of everybody on it.

60 points by Phoenix26 11y ago

Apple are just getting dirty in the music business now. They're telling their favorite journalists about Spotify's new privacy policy - like a journalist would ever investigate such a thing!

Someone 11y ago
"Upon opening the Spotify app up this morning, your reporter was greeted with a request to agree to the new conditions." So Apple hacked the Spotify app to pop up a message announcing the new privacy policy? On iOS, Android, or both? Either way, that's quite an extraordinary claim. I find the idea that Spotify made the change itself and that tech journalists routinely check for changes in privacy policies searching for something to write about much more plausible. So, please give some evidence that this is what happened.
- richmarr 11y ago
  > So Apple hacked... Think you misunderstood that aspect of jamesblonde's comment. He's suggesting the journalist is pushing Apple's PR for them. It does happen, journalists often use content PR firms send them. I have no idea if it happened in this case.
jagermo 11y ago
Not really. Brews is covering topics like privacy, so the updated policy and the additional permissions might have peeked his interest. http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/

jalfresi 11y ago

Is this for real? I pay £10 a month to avoid this crap and now I'm lumped in as well? Screw this, I'm off to Apple Music.

philliphaydon 11y ago
I moved to deezer. Waiting for android support for apple music. Spotify are gone for me when they ruined their desktop app.
- charlesray 11y ago
  You're complaining about Spotify's desktop app and yet you'd rather use iTunes? That's rich.
  - jalfresi 11y ago
    If it's not farming out your private data to third-parties, it already has a killer feature for me.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- richmarr 11y ago
  > android support for apple music Is that a thing? I thought Apple Music existed only to push iDevices.
  - sehr 11y ago
    It's been part of Apple musics announcements since the very beginning
charlesray 11y ago
"I pay £10 a month to avoid this crap" I don't understand this concept. I pay $10 a month get rid of ads, to be able to use the mobile app, and to get higher quality streams. There was never any reason to believe being a paid member had any impact on the data Spotify collects from you.
- jalfresi 11y ago

joopxiv 11y ago

"Upon opening the Spotify app up this morning..." "FORBES contacted Spotify for a response and is awaiting comment." This tells you exactly how much time they waited for Spotify to respond. This is 'iterative journalism' at its worst: publish first, investigate later! Completely disgusting.

beyti 11y ago
If the article is created based on the update from the privacy policy, the last sentence only means that they're just awaiting response from spotify if they'd like to say something. They're not asking anything, just showing the updates to readers; and IMHO it's a nice kind of journalism for me.
jamesblonde 11y ago
Apple wrote the article for them. Forbes edited it and published it. That's the real story here, IMO.
- benihana 11y ago
  Yeah you already said that elsewhere, also without any kind of proof or even a hint that it might be true.
  - jamesblonde 11y ago
    Dude, that's how the real world works. Hacks do not read updates to privacy policies. They get a tip-off and summary of what to write. I don't need proof. That's how it works.
    - mnem 11y ago
      Ah, you just know the truth. You should apply to become a judge. It'd speed the court system up.
    - cholantesh 11y ago
      It being tinfoil?

jagermo 11y ago

I just wanted to note that forbes uses at least 16 trackers in this article (and does not tell you about it). I have no problem with journalists pointing out flaws, but especially forbes likes to know a lot about its readers.

merijnv 11y ago
FYI, I opened up the privacy policy from my Spotify install (I updated yesterday, I think?) and none of this is mentioned in it.
lowmagnet 11y ago
With the default uBlock and uMatrix rules I use, the article just shows a spinner. I have to enable forbesimg.com that loads article thumbnails and the main css, along with 'vendor' and 'scripts' js.

tempestn 11y ago

Sensor data could make sense to pick appropriate music based on activity. Perhaps the idea with the GPS is the same, although personally I'd still prefer not to share that.

Guyag 11y ago
I believe this is the case - they have a mode (so I'm told) that will choose music based on your current running pace.

Guyag 11y ago

Companies need to take a new approach to the permissions they request - especially on Android where these are explicitly shown to the user. Often there are innocuous purposes behind them, but it's rarely immediately clear and results in people jumping to conclusions. Companies should be more explicit as to the reasons they request permissions.

ProblemFactory 11y ago
The good news is that from Android 6.0, permissions will be more dynamic: https://developer.android.com/preview/features/runtime-permissions.html https://developer.android.com/preview/features/runtime-permi... Apps can ask for permissions only if/when they are actually needed for a niche feature, and the user can reject or revoke each permission individually.

ruuki 11y ago

in general, i really don't like still being a product although i'm paying for subscription.

Oletros 11y ago

When he talks about mobile app, does he talks about the iOS one? i have opened the app on Android, gone to the privacy policies and I don't see any of those things he talks about. I have privacy policy in Spanish

danielsamuels 11y ago
I had the new privacy policy appear when I opened the app this morning and had to accept it to continue. Probably just rolling out over time.

axx 11y ago

I'm wondering how this would work with Apples privacy features? Before any App can access your location, contacts, picture and so on, you need to give it permission.

ibbb 11y ago
Exactly, it specifically states: With your permission, we may... Much about nothing...

danielsamuels 11y ago

I would guess that the new sensor usage and GPS data is for the Spotify Running feature which was announced a while back. From what I remember, it changes your songs based on your running speed. Makes sense to require this additional data.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

I don't use spotify and I usually don't like social anything (except HN, of course). However... Surely there are reasonable explanations. Let's break this down. GPS and motion sensors. Why could they want this? Maybe they will switch up your play list when you go for that run. Seems plausible. Contacts. Ok, everything is social, so maybe they want to send your current track to other spotify users in your contacts. Seems plausible. Photos. Not sure about this one. Sharing your information with partners. Does spotify play ads? wouldn't this be a standard part of sharing data with Apple and Google's ad network? I'm not defending them, but this is the social world we live in. You either find alternatives or deal with apps that pack social features in.

charlesray 11y ago
I THINK, and I could be totally wrong, but I THINK that on at least some platforms, when an app requires access to information stored locally on your phone, it's an all-or-nothing thing. So if Spotify needs permissions to local media files (which it obviously does) then there's no way to grant that without also giving it access to your local photos, for example. Could be totally wrong, I don't know, but I remember hearing that several times.
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  That would make sense.
  - charlesray 11y ago
    Awhile ago there was some major app, I think Facebook, that updated its Android version, and everyone freaked out because the new version required a seemingly-outrageous level of access. Some kind soul went down the whole list and explained by everything it requested was critical to the functionality of the app, and I seem to recall one of those explanations involving access to local files. Also, people need to take a step back and look at these privacy notices for what they really are: legal liability waivers. When Spotify says they are allowed to give your data to third parties, they are not saying "we are selling your data to third party marketers as we speak." They're saying, "if this data ends up in the hands of someone other than Spotify, you cannot sue us." That's it.

tmaly 11y ago

ok lets say this is true. If I want to continue using Spotify, how do I block them from looking at my pictures and contacts on a stock nexus 5 running a stock android 4.4.3 ?

tripzilch 11y ago

> Local law may require that you seek the consent of your contacts to provide their personal information to Spotify Uhm so how does that work? I'm not a Spotify user, but quite a few people who have me in their contact list definitely are. Let's say I don't consent. Which I don't. Will they have to cancel their Spotify subscription? Doesn't that responsibility fall with Spotify just as much? Because in that case, I'll gladly provide my contact list, for Spotify's one time exclusive usage with which they can cancel all the subscriptions of everybody on it.