5 ms·

What do you think about all those developers who, as the article says, spent a decade working on a project and now have nothing to show for it? Do you think th

by Ygor 17y ago

What do you think about all those developers who, as the article says, spent a decade working on a project and now have nothing to show for it? Do you think they really have nothing to show for it? Do they take a part of the blame? I mean, they still have a decade of experience in 3D game development and, as it seems, working with some of the newest technologies out there. Would you consider hiring them, or would you rather hire someone who spent a decade working for someone who was a better leader than Broussard and actually finished some projects?

potatolicious 17y ago
In the game industry the standard metric is "titles shipped" - you will see this as minimum requirements for various job postings. Not having enough titles shipped on your belt is deadly. It's hard to get people to even look at your resume.
- snprbob86 17y ago
  It appears that the studio leadership allowed the artists to showcase some of their work to help them find jobs: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=70670 http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=70670 Programmers might not have been so lucky...
- RyanMcGreal 17y ago
  Wouldn't "developer for Duke Nukem Forever" carry a certain cachet in the industry?
  - xsmasher 17y ago
    In the same sense that "Welder on the Titanic" would, yeah. Everyone knows you weren't steering the ship, but...
    - gaius 17y ago
      The welding on the Titanic was fine, the rivetting however...
    - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
      I laughed at the analogy, but I don't think it's appropriate. DNF didn't fail because the coding was subpar. Far from it: every time they released demos, jaws dropped over the extremely high quality of the graphics and game play. Rather, it failed because the project management had no endgame. In your analogy, the Titanic would have to be the most technologically advanced ship never to, well, ship.
      - xsmasher 17y ago
        The Titanic didn't fail because of bad welding either, so I think the analogy holds. It set sail auspiciously enough but never made it to port, and hubris and bad management certainly played a role in both cases. Someone with a better knowledge of nautical history could probably come up with a better example. Or aviation - the Spruce Goose maybe?
cturner 17y ago
What do you think about all those developers who, as the article says, spent a decade working on a project and now have nothing to show for it? Sympathy. Apparently infinite resources was definitely a curse. I had the dubious luck of working on many disaster projects early in my career. The warning signs became easier to spot. I tired of the good-little-soldier routine and became confident to kick up and keep kicking up if I saw my project off the rails. I've wondered a few times how valve managed to keep the show on the road - their major releases are routinely far later than expected, yet consistently good and successful.
- CamperBob 17y ago
  I've wondered a few times how valve managed to keep the show on the road - their major releases are routinely far later than expected, yet consistently good and successful. Valve was started by a couple of ex-Softies with two-digit employee numbers. They could have bought the Vatican and turned Catholicism into a LARP if they'd wanted to. The original Half-Life reached the 90%-complete point before they took some time out and played their own game. They concluded that it sucked, and started over from scratch. They had the pressure of building a reputation, and the advantage of not having to live up to an existing one.
- weaksauce 17y ago
  They are not perfectionists. They have many small groups or "cabals" where everyone's input is heard frequently and features are cut when the look like it will not increase the fun of the game. Couple that with the fact that they have some serious talent on board and they know when it is beneficial to outsource(physics engine for HL2:Source) and you have a pretty good foundation.
xsmasher 17y ago
It may be unfair, but I'd be suspicious; it's easier to start a project than it is to complete one, and there's a lot of end-stage stuff that they may not have experience with. I don't think it's the engineer's fault that the product never shipped, but with no end product we can't make a judgment either way. They could be a bunch of architecture astronauts for all we know. There's something to be said for picking a tech, sticking with it, and pushing it to its limits.

by Ygor 17y ago

potatolicious 17y ago

In the game industry the standard metric is "titles shipped" - you will see this as minimum requirements for various job postings. Not having enough titles shipped on your belt is deadly. It's hard to get people to even look at your resume.

snprbob86 17y ago
It appears that the studio leadership allowed the artists to showcase some of their work to help them find jobs: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=70670 http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=70670 Programmers might not have been so lucky...
RyanMcGreal 17y ago
Wouldn't "developer for Duke Nukem Forever" carry a certain cachet in the industry?
- xsmasher 17y ago
  In the same sense that "Welder on the Titanic" would, yeah. Everyone knows you weren't steering the ship, but...
  - gaius 17y ago
    The welding on the Titanic was fine, the rivetting however...
  - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
    I laughed at the analogy, but I don't think it's appropriate. DNF didn't fail because the coding was subpar. Far from it: every time they released demos, jaws dropped over the extremely high quality of the graphics and game play. Rather, it failed because the project management had no endgame. In your analogy, the Titanic would have to be the most technologically advanced ship never to, well, ship.
    - xsmasher 17y ago
      The Titanic didn't fail because of bad welding either, so I think the analogy holds. It set sail auspiciously enough but never made it to port, and hubris and bad management certainly played a role in both cases. Someone with a better knowledge of nautical history could probably come up with a better example. Or aviation - the Spruce Goose maybe?

cturner 17y ago

What do you think about all those developers who, as the article says, spent a decade working on a project and now have nothing to show for it? Sympathy. Apparently infinite resources was definitely a curse. I had the dubious luck of working on many disaster projects early in my career. The warning signs became easier to spot. I tired of the good-little-soldier routine and became confident to kick up and keep kicking up if I saw my project off the rails. I've wondered a few times how valve managed to keep the show on the road - their major releases are routinely far later than expected, yet consistently good and successful.

CamperBob 17y ago
I've wondered a few times how valve managed to keep the show on the road - their major releases are routinely far later than expected, yet consistently good and successful. Valve was started by a couple of ex-Softies with two-digit employee numbers. They could have bought the Vatican and turned Catholicism into a LARP if they'd wanted to. The original Half-Life reached the 90%-complete point before they took some time out and played their own game. They concluded that it sucked, and started over from scratch. They had the pressure of building a reputation, and the advantage of not having to live up to an existing one.
weaksauce 17y ago
They are not perfectionists. They have many small groups or "cabals" where everyone's input is heard frequently and features are cut when the look like it will not increase the fun of the game. Couple that with the fact that they have some serious talent on board and they know when it is beneficial to outsource(physics engine for HL2:Source) and you have a pretty good foundation.

xsmasher 17y ago

It may be unfair, but I'd be suspicious; it's easier to start a project than it is to complete one, and there's a lot of end-stage stuff that they may not have experience with. I don't think it's the engineer's fault that the product never shipped, but with no end product we can't make a judgment either way. They could be a bunch of architecture astronauts for all we know. There's something to be said for picking a tech, sticking with it, and pushing it to its limits.