4 ms·

I've never understood the logic of giving up the things you enjoy in life to gain time in the future to enjoy life. I'm all for frugal but life isn't a dress r

I've never understood the logic of giving up the things you enjoy in life to gain time in the future to enjoy life. I'm all for frugal but life isn't a dress rehearsal.

rthomas6 11y ago
It makes more sense if you buy into the concept of hedonic adaptation [0], which I do. The gist is that your happiness is not influenced as much as you think by your standard of living, but rather by changes in that standard. Absent of changes, your happiness will return to around its baseline level, and this is true for both positive and negative changes. So if that is actually true, it's possible to have a significantly lower cost of living and the same level of happiness. Thinking long term, why wouldn't someone want that? In terms of life satisfaction, you lose almost nothing in exchange for a long period of increased freedom. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
- radiorental 11y ago
  I could not agree more. However, I will make the distinction between perceived happiness and experience. Put very simply: over a 10 year period I could invest in a BMW or flights back to Europe to visit family. I will spare no expense giving our parents time with their grandchildren before it's too late. I'm more than happy to drive my POS '04 Mazda 6. When I read 'to live frugally so as to retire at 50' I see a lot of lost experiences that can enrich both now and later. Find the right job and enjoy life now.
  - astrange 11y ago
    It's "retire at 30", not 50. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of-the-stash-how-we-saved-from-zero-to-retirement-in-ten-years/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of...
TTPrograms 11y ago
You slip that word "time" in there like it's secondary to the expenses that apparently are required to "enjoy life", but being able to buy time to spend how you like is pretty damn valuable to a lot of people.
- radiorental 11y ago
  I live a modest life by US standards. My point is that both Quality and Experience of life change over time. Backloading time to the second half comes at an irrecoverable cost.
bkeroack 11y ago
There's a great moment in the documentary about Joan Rivers[1] before she died (was killed, basically). Sitting in her opulent, probably immensely expensive Manhattan penthouse apartment, in the middle of a discussion about how much money she has to make to stay afloat, she said something to the effect of: "Sure I could live carefully and it would be easy, but who wants to live carefully?". The point being, if you enjoy your lifestyle, and you really enjoy working hard (she defined herself by her work, so there was no other option to her), what is the point of frugality? Why amass a huge bank account just to die and leave it to someone else[2]? 1. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568150/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568150/ 2. Some might argue that one ought to save so one's children can get a nice inheritance. I'm not convinced that it's helpful for offspring to get (or expect) a big windfall that they don't have to work for. I suspect some people have an ulterior motive: they use a large inheritance as a way of blackmailing children into taking care of them in their old age. I find that distasteful.
- endtime 11y ago
  > I'm not convinced that it's helpful for offspring to get (or expect) a big windfall that they don't have to work for. I hope your offspring never have any surprise medical issues or special needs, don't want to go to college, don't have surprise twins when they thought they were done having kids, etc. It is absolutely helpful to e.g. free your grandkids from student debt, and this does not conflict with instilling in them a work ethic.
- kamaal 11y ago
  >>Some might argue that one ought to save so one's children can get a nice inheritance. Why would you not do that if you can. Having money gives your kids access to good education and freedom to stay away from a lot of crap poor kids have to deal with every day. Plus there is no advantage greater in life than getting a good head start over other people. A lot of people spend a big part of their lives just to get a decent start. Look up to this phenomenon called red queens race. >>I'm not convinced that it's helpful for offspring to get (or expect) a big windfall that they don't have to work for. That's a wrong way of looking at inheritance. Imagine what you could do in your free time if you had all the money in the world. Sure you could spend it away on wrong things. But you can also work on whatever you want and make a more meaningful difference through your work. >>I suspect some people have an ulterior motive: they use a large inheritance as a way of blackmailing children into taking care of them in their old age. I find that distasteful. Without money, you won't be able to take care of yourself. Also you would largely become a burden on your already financially stressed children. At least by having money you are saving them the financial struggle to see you through your old age.

I've never understood the logic of giving up the things you enjoy in life to gain time in the future to enjoy life. I'm all for frugal but life isn't a dress rehearsal.

rthomas6 11y ago

It makes more sense if you buy into the concept of hedonic adaptation [0], which I do. The gist is that your happiness is not influenced as much as you think by your standard of living, but rather by changes in that standard. Absent of changes, your happiness will return to around its baseline level, and this is true for both positive and negative changes. So if that is actually true, it's possible to have a significantly lower cost of living and the same level of happiness. Thinking long term, why wouldn't someone want that? In terms of life satisfaction, you lose almost nothing in exchange for a long period of increased freedom. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

radiorental 11y ago
I could not agree more. However, I will make the distinction between perceived happiness and experience. Put very simply: over a 10 year period I could invest in a BMW or flights back to Europe to visit family. I will spare no expense giving our parents time with their grandchildren before it's too late. I'm more than happy to drive my POS '04 Mazda 6. When I read 'to live frugally so as to retire at 50' I see a lot of lost experiences that can enrich both now and later. Find the right job and enjoy life now.
- astrange 11y ago
  It's "retire at 30", not 50. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of-the-stash-how-we-saved-from-zero-to-retirement-in-ten-years/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of...

TTPrograms 11y ago

You slip that word "time" in there like it's secondary to the expenses that apparently are required to "enjoy life", but being able to buy time to spend how you like is pretty damn valuable to a lot of people.

radiorental 11y ago
I live a modest life by US standards. My point is that both Quality and Experience of life change over time. Backloading time to the second half comes at an irrecoverable cost.

bkeroack 11y ago

There's a great moment in the documentary about Joan Rivers[1] before she died (was killed, basically). Sitting in her opulent, probably immensely expensive Manhattan penthouse apartment, in the middle of a discussion about how much money she has to make to stay afloat, she said something to the effect of: "Sure I could live carefully and it would be easy, but who wants to live carefully?". The point being, if you enjoy your lifestyle, and you really enjoy working hard (she defined herself by her work, so there was no other option to her), what is the point of frugality? Why amass a huge bank account just to die and leave it to someone else[2]? 1. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568150/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568150/ 2. Some might argue that one ought to save so one's children can get a nice inheritance. I'm not convinced that it's helpful for offspring to get (or expect) a big windfall that they don't have to work for. I suspect some people have an ulterior motive: they use a large inheritance as a way of blackmailing children into taking care of them in their old age. I find that distasteful.

endtime 11y ago
> I'm not convinced that it's helpful for offspring to get (or expect) a big windfall that they don't have to work for. I hope your offspring never have any surprise medical issues or special needs, don't want to go to college, don't have surprise twins when they thought they were done having kids, etc. It is absolutely helpful to e.g. free your grandkids from student debt, and this does not conflict with instilling in them a work ethic.
kamaal 11y ago
>>Some might argue that one ought to save so one's children can get a nice inheritance. Why would you not do that if you can. Having money gives your kids access to good education and freedom to stay away from a lot of crap poor kids have to deal with every day. Plus there is no advantage greater in life than getting a good head start over other people. A lot of people spend a big part of their lives just to get a decent start. Look up to this phenomenon called red queens race. >>I'm not convinced that it's helpful for offspring to get (or expect) a big windfall that they don't have to work for. That's a wrong way of looking at inheritance. Imagine what you could do in your free time if you had all the money in the world. Sure you could spend it away on wrong things. But you can also work on whatever you want and make a more meaningful difference through your work. >>I suspect some people have an ulterior motive: they use a large inheritance as a way of blackmailing children into taking care of them in their old age. I find that distasteful. Without money, you won't be able to take care of yourself. Also you would largely become a burden on your already financially stressed children. At least by having money you are saving them the financial struggle to see you through your old age.