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Yes the student fucked up, but CERN does have the 30k to spare, where as this student probably does not. Sure this is a good lesson to share, but also this is s

Yes the student fucked up, but CERN does have the 30k to spare, where as this student probably does not. Sure this is a good lesson to share, but also this is someone's life. They could have let the student go but still paid for it. Its the human thing to do

nhstanley 11y ago
Perhaps making the student share a portion of the cost would be smarter. Maybe make the student pay 5 or 10k or the 30. Alternatively, everyone could be adults and settle for a smaller, much more reasonable amount proportional to harm. Especially considering the company wasn't really harmed substantially by this since he did have access, just not on that machine.
trymas 11y ago
Even though CERN's budget is probably humongous, it does not mean it can spend 30k CHF (27.5k €, 30.5k $) left and right. As it is huge amount of cash. The best way to do is explain and negotiate with AllSIM. As I understood the student used pirated software for a very short period of time. If AllSIM are human, they will not charge CERN, or charge low fine (<1k €). Rules are rules, without obeying them, student compromised reputation of whole CERN, then his/hers university and finally himself. Probably CERN will not hire him and will not recommend to anybody else.
- rfrey 11y ago
  "Rules are rules, without obeying them, student compromised reputation of whole CERN" An uncompromising "rules are rules" attitude for non life-threatening policy violations in an organization comprised of human beings is asinine. It is not the student who is damaging the reputation of CERN in this situation, it is CERN.
  - sbuk 11y ago
    No, it's the student. He is an adult and he has made a conscious decision. It was knowingly dishonest.
  - trymas 11y ago
    You don't need to break 'life-threatening' rule to compromise your reputation. It's just about who is trustworthy and reliable, and who is not, especially in an organisation where people are very educated and probably with high morality standards.
    - JupiterMoon 11y ago
      Nope you just have to prove to be an officious pompous organisation which bullies it's people. Which CERN certainly has here. Go CERN.
      - sbuk 11y ago
        You really are going too far. CERN haven't 'bullied' anyone. The individual broke the law, why should CERN pay?
        JupiterMoon 11y ago
        As has already been established repeatedly on this thread quite possibly no one should pay. If I send you an invoice for $30000 it does not mean that you owe it to me merely that I am demanding it.
        sbuk 11y ago
        So the bully is AllSIM; CERN are merely passing the invoice on to the relevant party...
        JupiterMoon 11y ago
        No the bullies are AllSIM, CERN and the University. CERN or possibly the University employed the student. They are the relevant party. AllSIM are almost ridiculous with this speculative invoice.
        sbuk 11y ago
pelario 11y ago
Institutions are not humans, so they cannot do "the human thing to do". And of course there are departments, projects, etc, and probably the specific department that was billed did not have 30K to spare. Anyway, they could try a political solution (ie: call someone with authority in AllSIM)
sbuk 11y ago
I don't believe they do have a spare 30000CHF (approx $31000). Even if they did, I'd rather that they spend the CHF 30000 on research. Any way you look at it, this is the students fault, not CERNs or his University. The human thing to have done was to have acted professionally and not pirated the software in the first instance.

nhstanley 11y ago

Perhaps making the student share a portion of the cost would be smarter. Maybe make the student pay 5 or 10k or the 30. Alternatively, everyone could be adults and settle for a smaller, much more reasonable amount proportional to harm. Especially considering the company wasn't really harmed substantially by this since he did have access, just not on that machine.

trymas 11y ago

Even though CERN's budget is probably humongous, it does not mean it can spend 30k CHF (27.5k €, 30.5k $) left and right. As it is huge amount of cash. The best way to do is explain and negotiate with AllSIM. As I understood the student used pirated software for a very short period of time. If AllSIM are human, they will not charge CERN, or charge low fine (<1k €). Rules are rules, without obeying them, student compromised reputation of whole CERN, then his/hers university and finally himself. Probably CERN will not hire him and will not recommend to anybody else.

rfrey 11y ago
"Rules are rules, without obeying them, student compromised reputation of whole CERN" An uncompromising "rules are rules" attitude for non life-threatening policy violations in an organization comprised of human beings is asinine. It is not the student who is damaging the reputation of CERN in this situation, it is CERN.
- sbuk 11y ago
  No, it's the student. He is an adult and he has made a conscious decision. It was knowingly dishonest.
- trymas 11y ago
  You don't need to break 'life-threatening' rule to compromise your reputation. It's just about who is trustworthy and reliable, and who is not, especially in an organisation where people are very educated and probably with high morality standards.
  - JupiterMoon 11y ago
    Nope you just have to prove to be an officious pompous organisation which bullies it's people. Which CERN certainly has here. Go CERN.
    - sbuk 11y ago
      You really are going too far. CERN haven't 'bullied' anyone. The individual broke the law, why should CERN pay?
      - JupiterMoon 11y ago
        As has already been established repeatedly on this thread quite possibly no one should pay. If I send you an invoice for $30000 it does not mean that you owe it to me merely that I am demanding it.
        sbuk 11y ago
        So the bully is AllSIM; CERN are merely passing the invoice on to the relevant party...
        JupiterMoon 11y ago
        No the bullies are AllSIM, CERN and the University. CERN or possibly the University employed the student. They are the relevant party. AllSIM are almost ridiculous with this speculative invoice.
        sbuk 11y ago

pelario 11y ago

Institutions are not humans, so they cannot do "the human thing to do". And of course there are departments, projects, etc, and probably the specific department that was billed did not have 30K to spare. Anyway, they could try a political solution (ie: call someone with authority in AllSIM)

sbuk 11y ago

I don't believe they do have a spare 30000CHF (approx $31000). Even if they did, I'd rather that they spend the CHF 30000 on research. Any way you look at it, this is the students fault, not CERNs or his University. The human thing to have done was to have acted professionally and not pirated the software in the first instance.