4 ms·

For background, the US is not better than the UK in many respects - both from public perception and bureaucracy/law. While I am a citizen now, I was an illegal

by donohoe 11y ago

For background, the US is not better than the UK in many respects - both from public perception and bureaucracy/law. While I am a citizen now, I was an illegal immigrant for about 3(?) years. I worked in a bar and waited tables. One colleague in particular was very happy to complain about 'illegals', however he gave me a pass from his sweeping remarks because (as he said) "you're white and you speak English". I'd also like to point out that this guy was claiming unemployment money, not paying taxes, and likely having the gov paying in some form for his STD treatments. When I started the process for temporary work permit, green-card, then citizenship; it was no picnic either. Bureaucracy is intense (even for native English speaker). You pay out of pocket for all application fees (which is fine, but many people seem to think you're leeching on government services). I think in aggregate it amounted to about $2500. I also voluntarily payed estimated back taxes. I'm not sure this comment is helpful or informative. With the rhetoric coming out of GOP presidential candidates I just think its important for people to be reminded that the vast majority of are descended from immigrants.

hellofunk 11y ago
All Americans are from immigrant families, except for the very few left who descended from the beautiful tribal cultures that stretch back thousands of years, and that were promptly expunged by the immigrants. No American should be complaining about modern immigrants, with the sole exception of the Native American peoples, who have the only authority to speak on the matter, yet rarely do. That speaks to the silliness of these immigrant debates.
- jdmichal 11y ago
  The problem is, your argument is equally silly. Those "beautiful tribal cultures" did not spontaneously emerge; they immigrated to the Americas from Asia. So, at what point did they become "native"? Why are they native while the European-emmigrated peoples who have lived in the Americas for 3+ generations not native?
  - hellofunk 11y ago
    I don't think you can compare the prompt disruption of American indian tribes by the arrival of Europeans over a very short time, to the thousands of years in which the "Asian immigrants" (as you suggest) became the Native Americans.
    - jdmichal 11y ago
      Of course I can't, but that's irrelevant because I also didn't. I simply pointed out that the use of the word "native" against Americans which simply happen to have a more recent immigration background is pretty arbitrary and arguably unfair.
varjag 11y ago
Never applied for residence to either country, but at some point had to obtain entry visas for both. Have to say the UK certainly outdone its former colony in bureaucracy dept :) Both have vast, at times ridiculously worded forms to fill out, but the UK has also seemingly insatiable appetite for personal detail. When I was applying for a solo tour, they wanted to know personal history of my spouse, my child and my parents. Oh, and the 128 character form input to enter all your previous trips for 10 years. It was also the only country ever that grilled me on the border regarding the purpose of my trip.
- soneil 11y ago
  The UK is the only country to have ever asked me the purpose of my visit, past business/pleasure. Oddly, they asked while I was leaving. Odder still, I'm British by birth, appearance and passport. It's nothing personal. They're just weird.
- scholia 11y ago
  > It was also the only country ever that grilled me on the border regarding the purpose of my trip. I've been grilled several times when entering the US on journalist (I) visas in several decades of UK passports. This is in spite of making dozens of short visits with an impeccable record, on scheduled flights, with hotels pre-booked, and more than sufficient funds. (Not to mention a UK family, job, house, pension fund and many other ties.) I've seen enough journalists harassed on US entry to be extremely careful about doing everything correctly, and I'm always extremely polite. This usually works, but not every time. I appreciate that ultimately I have no rights and no way to defend myself. Welcome to America records the experience of a journalist who neglected to get an I-visa. She was fingerprinted, body-searched, jailed and then deported. But, she says, "I had travelled to the US on many occasions, both for work and pleasure, that I had, in fact, lived there as a permanent resident and that my husband was a US citizen, as was my New York-born daughter, all fell on deaf ears." She notes that "As documented by Reporters Without Borders and by the American Society of Newspaper Editors (Asne) in letters to Colin Powell and Tom Ridge, cases such as mine are part of a systemic policy of harassing media representatives from 27 friendly countries whose citizens - not journalists! - can travel to the US without a visa, for 90 days." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7
Texasian 11y ago
Right, but it sounds as if they had gotten the equivalent of a green-card and then had that yanked out from under them when the government changed the rules. It's akin to the US government saying "Hey, you can live here and come and go as you please, but in order to make a living, you've gotta fork over more money."

by donohoe 11y ago

hellofunk 11y ago

All Americans are from immigrant families, except for the very few left who descended from the beautiful tribal cultures that stretch back thousands of years, and that were promptly expunged by the immigrants. No American should be complaining about modern immigrants, with the sole exception of the Native American peoples, who have the only authority to speak on the matter, yet rarely do. That speaks to the silliness of these immigrant debates.

jdmichal 11y ago
The problem is, your argument is equally silly. Those "beautiful tribal cultures" did not spontaneously emerge; they immigrated to the Americas from Asia. So, at what point did they become "native"? Why are they native while the European-emmigrated peoples who have lived in the Americas for 3+ generations not native?
- hellofunk 11y ago
  I don't think you can compare the prompt disruption of American indian tribes by the arrival of Europeans over a very short time, to the thousands of years in which the "Asian immigrants" (as you suggest) became the Native Americans.
  - jdmichal 11y ago
    Of course I can't, but that's irrelevant because I also didn't. I simply pointed out that the use of the word "native" against Americans which simply happen to have a more recent immigration background is pretty arbitrary and arguably unfair.

varjag 11y ago

Never applied for residence to either country, but at some point had to obtain entry visas for both. Have to say the UK certainly outdone its former colony in bureaucracy dept :) Both have vast, at times ridiculously worded forms to fill out, but the UK has also seemingly insatiable appetite for personal detail. When I was applying for a solo tour, they wanted to know personal history of my spouse, my child and my parents. Oh, and the 128 character form input to enter all your previous trips for 10 years. It was also the only country ever that grilled me on the border regarding the purpose of my trip.

soneil 11y ago
The UK is the only country to have ever asked me the purpose of my visit, past business/pleasure. Oddly, they asked while I was leaving. Odder still, I'm British by birth, appearance and passport. It's nothing personal. They're just weird.
scholia 11y ago
> It was also the only country ever that grilled me on the border regarding the purpose of my trip. I've been grilled several times when entering the US on journalist (I) visas in several decades of UK passports. This is in spite of making dozens of short visits with an impeccable record, on scheduled flights, with hotels pre-booked, and more than sufficient funds. (Not to mention a UK family, job, house, pension fund and many other ties.) I've seen enough journalists harassed on US entry to be extremely careful about doing everything correctly, and I'm always extremely polite. This usually works, but not every time. I appreciate that ultimately I have no rights and no way to defend myself. Welcome to America records the experience of a journalist who neglected to get an I-visa. She was fingerprinted, body-searched, jailed and then deported. But, she says, "I had travelled to the US on many occasions, both for work and pleasure, that I had, in fact, lived there as a permanent resident and that my husband was a US citizen, as was my New York-born daughter, all fell on deaf ears." She notes that "As documented by Reporters Without Borders and by the American Society of Newspaper Editors (Asne) in letters to Colin Powell and Tom Ridge, cases such as mine are part of a systemic policy of harassing media representatives from 27 friendly countries whose citizens - not journalists! - can travel to the US without a visa, for 90 days." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7

Texasian 11y ago

Right, but it sounds as if they had gotten the equivalent of a green-card and then had that yanked out from under them when the government changed the rules. It's akin to the US government saying "Hey, you can live here and come and go as you please, but in order to make a living, you've gotta fork over more money."