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Why not apply for British citizenship? She seems to fit all the criteria... Living (semi)permanently for years in any country on a visa seems kinda foolish to

Why not apply for British citizenship? She seems to fit all the criteria... Living (semi)permanently for years in any country on a visa seems kinda foolish to me, in the end you are the citizen of another country. I know a few people who settled elsewhere in the EU and now consider themselves "citizens". Yeah, no, you're just a resident and could be kicked out or at least have a lot of issues (case in point) if politics change. Just make it really permanent by applying for citizenship if you already lived there for 10 years and intend on living there for the next 5+ years, imo...

_petronius 11y ago
Applications for citizenship (just asking, mind you, payable every time you apply, in case you have to re-apply for some reason) cost about GBP 1,000. So if ~600 quid is a kick in the teeth, 1,000 isn't any more affordable.
- prodmerc 11y ago
  Oh, OK, that is quite expensive. But it would still settle all your worries for the future, I presume.
  - _petronius 11y ago
    True. And that's one reason why if I stay in my current country of residence long enough, I'm going to naturalize, even if it means having to give up my US passport.
the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
> Why not apply for British citizenship? She seems to fit all the criteria... Not everybody is willing to adopt another citizenship just like that. First of all not everybody can have dual citizenship (I have no idea if she can, she did not say which citizen she is) secondly it comes with certain requirements. It costs money and it requires you to swear your allegiance to that country, not everybody is willing to do. It'a also expensive and you need to pass tests. Not everybody has time and money for that. > Living (semi)permanently for years in any country on a visa seems kinda foolish to me, in the end you are the citizen of another country. How so? This should be the most natural thing in the world as all countries people immigrate to have provisions that allow you to stay in the country without being a citizen. Without that many people would be much worse of as giving up citizenship can have severe punishments (expatriate taxes for instance).
- witty_username 11y ago
  > swear your allegiance to that country Perhaps I'm ignorant, but isn't that merely a ceremonial procedure?
  - prodmerc 11y ago
    I mean, you do officially swear to protect and serve the country, what it stands for and its people in a time of need, to respect the laws and customs. Whether you keep that promise or not is up to you, but obviously most people (hopefully) don't just throw promises around and actually feel like it's a big commitment...
  - the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
    > Perhaps I'm ignorant, but isn't that merely a ceremonial procedure? Not at all if you are male and under conscription age as you will need to do military service. (Also more theoretically it affects a country going to war.)
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- prodmerc 11y ago
  I understand that (and it is a big commitment), but if they lived for a decade in a country and like it, why not? Seems like a better option than mucking around with visas and residence/work permits. I mean, this ILR gave them right of abode (if I understand correctly), and now they changed the laws so they can't work legally without a new document. What guarantees do they have that requirements for permanent residence won't change again in the future?
mikekchar 11y ago
I'm Canadian, but haven't lived in Canada for about 10 years. I'm permanently settled in Japan now, and often wonder about if I will ever become a citizen. There are very few benefits to being a citizen in ordinary life, and many drawbacks. First Japan requires you to renounce your old citizenship. Not a huge problem, but it means that I would need to get a tourist visa to visit my family in Canada. Since I currently have a visa for Japan, it is easy for me to leave Japan, enter Canada and return to Japan. If I were a Japanese citizen it becomes more difficult in practice. Also, as a Canadian citizen I am legally allowed to work in Canada if, by some stroke of hard luck, I was unable to find work in Japan. Also, due to the free trade agreement with the US, I can work in the US. Also, due to the fact that I am a commonwealth citizen with British ancestry, I can work in the UK (which I did recently). All of that disappears if I become a Japanese citizen. And what do I get in return? I can vote in local elections. And I can't be deported. Although it is naive, it's easy to think "I have a visa and up to this point, I have had no problems at all with the Japanese government. My spouse is Japanese, so surely they won't kick me out, right?" It's easy to think that there are lots of drawbacks with no benefits. But if I am really honest with myself, what would I do if I got kicked out of Japan? I would be seriously unhappy. This is my home and I never want to leave. If I feel that way, I should try to get citizenship, no matter what inconvenience that entails. Of course, I think I've got another 9 years before I can apply, so I have a long time to think about it (I lived here before, but when I went to the UK, I had to restart the timer :-P )
- prodmerc 11y ago
  It is different from country to country (Japan is notoriously difficult, afaik). Would getting a UK citizenship pose any similar problems?
  - mikekchar 11y ago
    Japan is notoriously easy to get a visa for, but notoriously difficult for citizenship. For me UK citizenship would mostly provide upside because I can be dual citizen. It would give me everything and allow me to work anywhere in Europe (until UKIP has their way, of course). Oddly, it has some downside because with an ancestry entry permit (which is what I used to work in the UK previously), it is very easy to get a UK visa for my wife (who is Japanese). If I was a citizen, it is actually slightly more difficult (more expensive, more hoops to jump). Such is the maze of international visas. The OP was of Argentinian decent so given the Falklands war, I don't know what the status is for dual citizenship with the UK (a quick Google search didn't help me). Basically you can't generalize, but I think you are generally correct that if you intend to stay in a country forever you should consider citizenship very seriously. Living abroad is an eye opening experience. You have to really understand that you are a guest in the country and are subject to whatever whims they may have (with no say on your part). Paying taxes, being a good neighbour, providing benefit to the host country does not mean anything.

_petronius 11y ago

Applications for citizenship (just asking, mind you, payable every time you apply, in case you have to re-apply for some reason) cost about GBP 1,000. So if ~600 quid is a kick in the teeth, 1,000 isn't any more affordable.

prodmerc 11y ago
Oh, OK, that is quite expensive. But it would still settle all your worries for the future, I presume.
- _petronius 11y ago
  True. And that's one reason why if I stay in my current country of residence long enough, I'm going to naturalize, even if it means having to give up my US passport.

the_mitsuhiko 11y ago

> Why not apply for British citizenship? She seems to fit all the criteria... Not everybody is willing to adopt another citizenship just like that. First of all not everybody can have dual citizenship (I have no idea if she can, she did not say which citizen she is) secondly it comes with certain requirements. It costs money and it requires you to swear your allegiance to that country, not everybody is willing to do. It'a also expensive and you need to pass tests. Not everybody has time and money for that. > Living (semi)permanently for years in any country on a visa seems kinda foolish to me, in the end you are the citizen of another country. How so? This should be the most natural thing in the world as all countries people immigrate to have provisions that allow you to stay in the country without being a citizen. Without that many people would be much worse of as giving up citizenship can have severe punishments (expatriate taxes for instance).

witty_username 11y ago
> swear your allegiance to that country Perhaps I'm ignorant, but isn't that merely a ceremonial procedure?
- prodmerc 11y ago
  I mean, you do officially swear to protect and serve the country, what it stands for and its people in a time of need, to respect the laws and customs. Whether you keep that promise or not is up to you, but obviously most people (hopefully) don't just throw promises around and actually feel like it's a big commitment...
- the_mitsuhiko 11y ago
  > Perhaps I'm ignorant, but isn't that merely a ceremonial procedure? Not at all if you are male and under conscription age as you will need to do military service. (Also more theoretically it affects a country going to war.)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
prodmerc 11y ago
I understand that (and it is a big commitment), but if they lived for a decade in a country and like it, why not? Seems like a better option than mucking around with visas and residence/work permits. I mean, this ILR gave them right of abode (if I understand correctly), and now they changed the laws so they can't work legally without a new document. What guarantees do they have that requirements for permanent residence won't change again in the future?

mikekchar 11y ago

I'm Canadian, but haven't lived in Canada for about 10 years. I'm permanently settled in Japan now, and often wonder about if I will ever become a citizen. There are very few benefits to being a citizen in ordinary life, and many drawbacks. First Japan requires you to renounce your old citizenship. Not a huge problem, but it means that I would need to get a tourist visa to visit my family in Canada. Since I currently have a visa for Japan, it is easy for me to leave Japan, enter Canada and return to Japan. If I were a Japanese citizen it becomes more difficult in practice. Also, as a Canadian citizen I am legally allowed to work in Canada if, by some stroke of hard luck, I was unable to find work in Japan. Also, due to the free trade agreement with the US, I can work in the US. Also, due to the fact that I am a commonwealth citizen with British ancestry, I can work in the UK (which I did recently). All of that disappears if I become a Japanese citizen. And what do I get in return? I can vote in local elections. And I can't be deported. Although it is naive, it's easy to think "I have a visa and up to this point, I have had no problems at all with the Japanese government. My spouse is Japanese, so surely they won't kick me out, right?" It's easy to think that there are lots of drawbacks with no benefits. But if I am really honest with myself, what would I do if I got kicked out of Japan? I would be seriously unhappy. This is my home and I never want to leave. If I feel that way, I should try to get citizenship, no matter what inconvenience that entails. Of course, I think I've got another 9 years before I can apply, so I have a long time to think about it (I lived here before, but when I went to the UK, I had to restart the timer :-P )

prodmerc 11y ago
It is different from country to country (Japan is notoriously difficult, afaik). Would getting a UK citizenship pose any similar problems?
- mikekchar 11y ago
  Japan is notoriously easy to get a visa for, but notoriously difficult for citizenship. For me UK citizenship would mostly provide upside because I can be dual citizen. It would give me everything and allow me to work anywhere in Europe (until UKIP has their way, of course). Oddly, it has some downside because with an ancestry entry permit (which is what I used to work in the UK previously), it is very easy to get a UK visa for my wife (who is Japanese). If I was a citizen, it is actually slightly more difficult (more expensive, more hoops to jump). Such is the maze of international visas. The OP was of Argentinian decent so given the Falklands war, I don't know what the status is for dual citizenship with the UK (a quick Google search didn't help me). Basically you can't generalize, but I think you are generally correct that if you intend to stay in a country forever you should consider citizenship very seriously. Living abroad is an eye opening experience. You have to really understand that you are a guest in the country and are subject to whatever whims they may have (with no say on your part). Paying taxes, being a good neighbour, providing benefit to the host country does not mean anything.