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Haha, well that's stretching the argument a bit, but for the sake of conversation I would then ask for proof that family is indeed the "basic building block of

Haha, well that's stretching the argument a bit, but for the sake of conversation I would then ask for proof that family is indeed the "basic building block of society" and that what MA is doing is actually damaging it to an extent that it can be considered a public safety issue.

DanBC 11y ago
Not proof, but "the family" is recognised as really important in international law. They don't define a family as one male adult, one female adult, and some children by birth. So, personally, I use a broad definition of family that includes homosexuals and fostering and polyamory, while rejecting stuff like forced marriage or child marriage.
humanrebar 11y ago
> I would then ask for proof that family is indeed the "basic building block of society" I think the burden of proof goes the other way, considering marriage laws (including those that punish infidelity) have been part of common law for hundreds of years.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  The burden of proof is upon the one who makes the claim, so no it isn't the other way around.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Have you seen a society of random people who don't have long-term relationships? A country which laws don't treat family as a basic concept, and third of which is not built around it? That family is a fundamental unit in human societies is a pretty much self-evident thing at this point. The burden of proof lies squarely on those who disagree with observable reality.
    - tlb 11y ago
      Malinowski [0] describes a highly functional such society. Instead of paternity and monogamy, they had a similarly complex but different set of taboos. Reading it will help you realize what a cultural bubble we all live in, and that there are completely different configurations of society that also work. [0] http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Savages-Argonauts-Western-Pacific-ebook/dp/B00T8C3TYA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1440020984&sr=8-4&keywords=malinowski http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Savages-Argonauts-Western-Pacif...
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Never heard of it before, thanks!
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      Families exist regardless of marriage, marriage != family, so to claim that attacking marriage tears at the foundations of society and then to move the goal post and say they're attacking families, your must first demonstrate what you're saying is true. Marriages don't make families, loved ones do.

DanBC 11y ago

Not proof, but "the family" is recognised as really important in international law. They don't define a family as one male adult, one female adult, and some children by birth. So, personally, I use a broad definition of family that includes homosexuals and fostering and polyamory, while rejecting stuff like forced marriage or child marriage.

humanrebar 11y ago

> I would then ask for proof that family is indeed the "basic building block of society" I think the burden of proof goes the other way, considering marriage laws (including those that punish infidelity) have been part of common law for hundreds of years.

gnaritas 11y ago
The burden of proof is upon the one who makes the claim, so no it isn't the other way around.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Have you seen a society of random people who don't have long-term relationships? A country which laws don't treat family as a basic concept, and third of which is not built around it? That family is a fundamental unit in human societies is a pretty much self-evident thing at this point. The burden of proof lies squarely on those who disagree with observable reality.
  - tlb 11y ago
    Malinowski [0] describes a highly functional such society. Instead of paternity and monogamy, they had a similarly complex but different set of taboos. Reading it will help you realize what a cultural bubble we all live in, and that there are completely different configurations of society that also work. [0] http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Savages-Argonauts-Western-Pacific-ebook/dp/B00T8C3TYA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1440020984&sr=8-4&keywords=malinowski http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Savages-Argonauts-Western-Pacif...
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Never heard of it before, thanks!
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    Families exist regardless of marriage, marriage != family, so to claim that attacking marriage tears at the foundations of society and then to move the goal post and say they're attacking families, your must first demonstrate what you're saying is true. Marriages don't make families, loved ones do.