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Their core point was predicated on the assumption that I responded to, that being happy to have a certain job is incompatible with being mistreated. Some driver

Their core point was predicated on the assumption that I responded to, that being happy to have a certain job is incompatible with being mistreated. Some drivers are happy with Uber but that doesn't mean that Uber is treating them as well as it could or should. Furthermore, just because Uber might be the best solution to a given problem for someone right now doesn't mean that it's an ideal solution. It's great that some people's lives are better because they can work for Uber but they should still improve their practices. Again, apply this same logic to child labor. "Our family is happy to be able to make ends meet, even if it means our child has to work instead of going to school. We can eat more often than we did before." That's a compelling argument for sending your kid to work, but it's also a compelling indictment of the society that is failing to take care of those people. Ban the kids from working and then figure out another way to solve the problem of their hunger. As others have said, try asking Uber drivers if they would like benefits and better pay. I've talked to many many Uber drivers, too, and even though they are clearly not being enslaved many of them see problems with various aspects of the current Uber model.

tptacek 11y ago
I'm not sure why this is supposed to be a compelling argument. I can go down my IM buddy list through ~100 people who work in tech and all of them will say they'd like better benefits and pay too, despite being some of the best compensated employees in the world. Also: let's retain fidelity to the original argument. It's not "some" Uber drivers who say they're happy. Every Uber driver I've ever talked to --- and I ask most of them --- says they're happier at Uber than at previous driving jobs. I think that's what the original commenter said as well. If you look at my comment history, you'll find that I'm not exactly an Uber apologist (I think just take my word on that though). But I think they get a somewhat unfair ding on this particular issue.
- ForrestN 11y ago
  Clearly those people are well-clear of the minimum standards we generally apply to full-time workers. There's a reason we've collectively decided that companies can't just call their employees contractors and screw them over: we think that companies have certain responsibilities to the people they employ. It's a compelling argument not because people wish they had more benefits and pay but because the benefits and pay they have fall below generally accepted minimum standards. I've talked to many Uber drivers who are in the middle of an endless shift because its the only way they can make enough money for everything to work out positively for them. I've talked to one Uber driver who had switched between black cars and black SUVs and UberX because the careful balance between the overhead of the cars and the amount he earns and gas prices etc. meant that he spent a year breaking even while driving full time. My experience is mostly in Chicago, in case that matters. Being broke is worse than being underemployed, but working constantly because you aren't being compensated fairly is still a failure on the part of the employer. It's great that rich people also wish they were richer but that's not really relevant. It's also great that you've talked to a bunch of Uber drivers wherever you live and travel to and that they've decided to represent themselves as happy, but that's not really scientific enough to end an argument or to carve out an exception to established laws on independent contractors. As a sidenote, I appreciate that you aren't an Uber apologist, and didn't mean to imply that you were— I take your reasoning in good faith even if I disagree with you.

tptacek 11y ago

I'm not sure why this is supposed to be a compelling argument. I can go down my IM buddy list through ~100 people who work in tech and all of them will say they'd like better benefits and pay too, despite being some of the best compensated employees in the world. Also: let's retain fidelity to the original argument. It's not "some" Uber drivers who say they're happy. Every Uber driver I've ever talked to --- and I ask most of them --- says they're happier at Uber than at previous driving jobs. I think that's what the original commenter said as well. If you look at my comment history, you'll find that I'm not exactly an Uber apologist (I think just take my word on that though). But I think they get a somewhat unfair ding on this particular issue.

ForrestN 11y ago
Clearly those people are well-clear of the minimum standards we generally apply to full-time workers. There's a reason we've collectively decided that companies can't just call their employees contractors and screw them over: we think that companies have certain responsibilities to the people they employ. It's a compelling argument not because people wish they had more benefits and pay but because the benefits and pay they have fall below generally accepted minimum standards. I've talked to many Uber drivers who are in the middle of an endless shift because its the only way they can make enough money for everything to work out positively for them. I've talked to one Uber driver who had switched between black cars and black SUVs and UberX because the careful balance between the overhead of the cars and the amount he earns and gas prices etc. meant that he spent a year breaking even while driving full time. My experience is mostly in Chicago, in case that matters. Being broke is worse than being underemployed, but working constantly because you aren't being compensated fairly is still a failure on the part of the employer. It's great that rich people also wish they were richer but that's not really relevant. It's also great that you've talked to a bunch of Uber drivers wherever you live and travel to and that they've decided to represent themselves as happy, but that's not really scientific enough to end an argument or to carve out an exception to established laws on independent contractors. As a sidenote, I appreciate that you aren't an Uber apologist, and didn't mean to imply that you were— I take your reasoning in good faith even if I disagree with you.