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I don't see how this is possibly true. Every single time I ride in an Uber or Uber X, I always ask the drivers how they like driving for Uber, and what their ex

I don't see how this is possibly true. Every single time I ride in an Uber or Uber X, I always ask the drivers how they like driving for Uber, and what their experience has been like, and every single one of them has responded positively (out of around 20 times I've asked). If they don't like how they are treated, they can stop driving for Uber. It's not my moral responsibility to police Uber's business practices for the sake of their drivers.

derwiki 11y ago
Unless they need money to pay bills and have no other sources of income. [edit] Also, try asking "how do you like being considered a contractor vs full time with health benefits" -- I've found that perfectly "happy" drivers will give you an earful about this.
- cyan_atrus 11y ago
  maybe instead ask "how do you like being considered a contractor and setting your own hours vs full time with health benefits"?
  - fwn 11y ago
    That's a funny question since full time with benefits is clearly not an option in this business model. To ask if they would prefer living rich without working would be equally demagogic.
- t0mbstone 11y ago
  That doesn't change the fact that nobody is forcing them to be Uber drivers. It's an opportunity that's out there, and they can choose to participate or not. The ones that have chosen to participate and be Uber drivers seem to be pretty happy about it (or at least the ones I've talked to). A lot of the Uber drivers I've talked to are part time. For example, the other day, I talked to a grandmother who literally just liked driving around. Uber X gave her a way to pay off her car, doing what she loved. Whenever she got bored, she would just log off and head home. She had nothing bad to say about her job at all.
myth_buster 11y ago
This has exactly been my experience while talking to drivers although most have been driving for less than 3 months. This has been quite different to what I see driver reviews [0] on the Glassdoor. The difference in reviews is quite stark when you compare the reviews between engineers/managers vs drivers. [0] http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Reviews/Uber-Reviews-E575263.htm?filter.jobTitleFTS=Uber+Driver http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Reviews/Uber-Reviews-E575263.htm...
ForrestN 11y ago
This argument, that it's super easy to find any kind of work you want, is totally disconnected from the reality of these people's lives. Throughout history we've collectively decided that poor people can and should be protected from unfair labor practices. Just because plenty of children were willing to work doesn't mean we were wrong to keep them from doing so. It's our moral responsibility as a society to make sure that everyone within our society is treated fairly, especially in the United States since we fail so hard at providing the kind of safety nets that take care of the un- and under-employed.
- tptacek 11y ago
  You didn't respond to his core point, which is that in his experience (and mine), drivers are happy with Uber. Uber is better than what they had before. It's an especially important point to make w/r/t/ food delivery, because delivery drivers for incumbent providers are absolutely not treated well. These are some of the workers we hear about in horror stories about people not being able to schedule child care because their work schedules change at the drop of a hat.
  - ForrestN 11y ago
    Their core point was predicated on the assumption that I responded to, that being happy to have a certain job is incompatible with being mistreated. Some drivers are happy with Uber but that doesn't mean that Uber is treating them as well as it could or should. Furthermore, just because Uber might be the best solution to a given problem for someone right now doesn't mean that it's an ideal solution. It's great that some people's lives are better because they can work for Uber but they should still improve their practices. Again, apply this same logic to child labor. "Our family is happy to be able to make ends meet, even if it means our child has to work instead of going to school. We can eat more often than we did before." That's a compelling argument for sending your kid to work, but it's also a compelling indictment of the society that is failing to take care of those people. Ban the kids from working and then figure out another way to solve the problem of their hunger. As others have said, try asking Uber drivers if they would like benefits and better pay. I've talked to many many Uber drivers, too, and even though they are clearly not being enslaved many of them see problems with various aspects of the current Uber model.
hayksaakian 11y ago
think logically for a second. do you think the drivers with a bad experience would stick around at Uber? or would they probably leave? There's little to no obligation to stay an uber driver, you can literally quit without notice any day.
- tptacek 11y ago
  I have never talked to an Uber driver who complained about Uber. It has never happened. Even if Uber had a strictly enforced "no complaining about Uber" rule with a system in place to correlate people relaying complaints to the likely subset of drivers, you'd expect at least a few stories. In fact: Uber drivers somewhat regularly break Uber's serious, overt rules. For instance: I've had drivers ask for money at the end of a ride (if you rate a trip zero stars, Uber will ping you to ask why, and if you tell them you got asked for money, they'll refund it). This has happened to me on three different occasions. So your logic requires us to believe that Uber drivers will flout the most important rule on the platform (all commerce goes through the Uber app), but assiduously adhere to an unstated rule about saying nice things about Uber. The simplest explanation seems compelling in this case. Uber doesn't do an especially great job at taking care of drivers, but the package as a whole is much better for drivers than the cab and livery companies, and Uber drivers are pretty happy to have the new option.
  - hayksaakian 11y ago
    I think you missed it -- I'm not saying they get fired for complaining, I'm saying they simply stop working with Uber after they have a bad experience. A driver who stopped working at Uber would have no opportunity to express their complaints to you. Try talking to Lyft drivers or drivers on other platforms who used uber in the past.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      I understood your point, and I'm saying: after taking lots and lots of Uber rides, why wouldn't I have had one driver who was getting ready to leave the platform? The only explanation I could come up with is that Uber does something to suppress those kinds of comments, and so I related why I thought that wasn't a satisfactory explanation.
lumberjack 11y ago
Maybe, they just stop working when they get crossed with Uber so you never get to meet anyone with a bad experience working for them?
devindotcom 11y ago
It's not my moral responsibility to police Uber's business practices for the sake of their drivers. Actually, it is! You're not a neutral party just because you didn't make the policy. You tacitly support their policies by choosing their service. You can tacitly disapprove by choosing another service. This is the basis of things like boycotts, which actually can and do have effects on company policies. Think about Chick Fil-A or something like that. You can choose to support a company that has policies that are bad news or you can choose not to.

derwiki 11y ago

Unless they need money to pay bills and have no other sources of income. [edit] Also, try asking "how do you like being considered a contractor vs full time with health benefits" -- I've found that perfectly "happy" drivers will give you an earful about this.

cyan_atrus 11y ago
maybe instead ask "how do you like being considered a contractor and setting your own hours vs full time with health benefits"?
- fwn 11y ago
  That's a funny question since full time with benefits is clearly not an option in this business model. To ask if they would prefer living rich without working would be equally demagogic.
t0mbstone 11y ago
That doesn't change the fact that nobody is forcing them to be Uber drivers. It's an opportunity that's out there, and they can choose to participate or not. The ones that have chosen to participate and be Uber drivers seem to be pretty happy about it (or at least the ones I've talked to). A lot of the Uber drivers I've talked to are part time. For example, the other day, I talked to a grandmother who literally just liked driving around. Uber X gave her a way to pay off her car, doing what she loved. Whenever she got bored, she would just log off and head home. She had nothing bad to say about her job at all.

myth_buster 11y ago

This has exactly been my experience while talking to drivers although most have been driving for less than 3 months. This has been quite different to what I see driver reviews [0] on the Glassdoor. The difference in reviews is quite stark when you compare the reviews between engineers/managers vs drivers. [0] http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Reviews/Uber-Reviews-E575263.htm?filter.jobTitleFTS=Uber+Driver http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Reviews/Uber-Reviews-E575263.htm...

ForrestN 11y ago

This argument, that it's super easy to find any kind of work you want, is totally disconnected from the reality of these people's lives. Throughout history we've collectively decided that poor people can and should be protected from unfair labor practices. Just because plenty of children were willing to work doesn't mean we were wrong to keep them from doing so. It's our moral responsibility as a society to make sure that everyone within our society is treated fairly, especially in the United States since we fail so hard at providing the kind of safety nets that take care of the un- and under-employed.

tptacek 11y ago
You didn't respond to his core point, which is that in his experience (and mine), drivers are happy with Uber. Uber is better than what they had before. It's an especially important point to make w/r/t/ food delivery, because delivery drivers for incumbent providers are absolutely not treated well. These are some of the workers we hear about in horror stories about people not being able to schedule child care because their work schedules change at the drop of a hat.
- ForrestN 11y ago
  Their core point was predicated on the assumption that I responded to, that being happy to have a certain job is incompatible with being mistreated. Some drivers are happy with Uber but that doesn't mean that Uber is treating them as well as it could or should. Furthermore, just because Uber might be the best solution to a given problem for someone right now doesn't mean that it's an ideal solution. It's great that some people's lives are better because they can work for Uber but they should still improve their practices. Again, apply this same logic to child labor. "Our family is happy to be able to make ends meet, even if it means our child has to work instead of going to school. We can eat more often than we did before." That's a compelling argument for sending your kid to work, but it's also a compelling indictment of the society that is failing to take care of those people. Ban the kids from working and then figure out another way to solve the problem of their hunger. As others have said, try asking Uber drivers if they would like benefits and better pay. I've talked to many many Uber drivers, too, and even though they are clearly not being enslaved many of them see problems with various aspects of the current Uber model.

hayksaakian 11y ago

think logically for a second. do you think the drivers with a bad experience would stick around at Uber? or would they probably leave? There's little to no obligation to stay an uber driver, you can literally quit without notice any day.

tptacek 11y ago
I have never talked to an Uber driver who complained about Uber. It has never happened. Even if Uber had a strictly enforced "no complaining about Uber" rule with a system in place to correlate people relaying complaints to the likely subset of drivers, you'd expect at least a few stories. In fact: Uber drivers somewhat regularly break Uber's serious, overt rules. For instance: I've had drivers ask for money at the end of a ride (if you rate a trip zero stars, Uber will ping you to ask why, and if you tell them you got asked for money, they'll refund it). This has happened to me on three different occasions. So your logic requires us to believe that Uber drivers will flout the most important rule on the platform (all commerce goes through the Uber app), but assiduously adhere to an unstated rule about saying nice things about Uber. The simplest explanation seems compelling in this case. Uber doesn't do an especially great job at taking care of drivers, but the package as a whole is much better for drivers than the cab and livery companies, and Uber drivers are pretty happy to have the new option.
- hayksaakian 11y ago
  I think you missed it -- I'm not saying they get fired for complaining, I'm saying they simply stop working with Uber after they have a bad experience. A driver who stopped working at Uber would have no opportunity to express their complaints to you. Try talking to Lyft drivers or drivers on other platforms who used uber in the past.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    I understood your point, and I'm saying: after taking lots and lots of Uber rides, why wouldn't I have had one driver who was getting ready to leave the platform? The only explanation I could come up with is that Uber does something to suppress those kinds of comments, and so I related why I thought that wasn't a satisfactory explanation.

lumberjack 11y ago

Maybe, they just stop working when they get crossed with Uber so you never get to meet anyone with a bad experience working for them?

devindotcom 11y ago

It's not my moral responsibility to police Uber's business practices for the sake of their drivers. Actually, it is! You're not a neutral party just because you didn't make the policy. You tacitly support their policies by choosing their service. You can tacitly disapprove by choosing another service. This is the basis of things like boycotts, which actually can and do have effects on company policies. Think about Chick Fil-A or something like that. You can choose to support a company that has policies that are bad news or you can choose not to.