4 ms·

I don't even know what this means. Are you saying that your ISP doesn't allow you to plug standard ethernet devices into their lines? I own my own modem and rou

I don't even know what this means. Are you saying that your ISP doesn't allow you to plug standard ethernet devices into their lines? I own my own modem and router and do what I want with them. I don't follow you.

dragonwriter 11y ago
> Are you saying that your ISP doesn't allow you to plug standard ethernet devices into their lines? Using your own router rather than the ISPs preconfigured router requires more than just plugging a personally-purchased router into their line (even in the simple case where you aren't using the ISPs bundled cable/phone/internet service that's all delivered through a common system.) At least in the simple case, someone with modest technical skill can figure out how to get that information relatively easily, but most ISP customers aren't even modestly technical.
- RobotCaleb 11y ago
  Since when? When I got my new router, I plugged it in and was online. I did some configuration (and flashing) afterwards, but it certainly worked when I plugged it in. Isn't that the point of consumer products?
- wging 11y ago
  When I've had a cable modem, all I've had to do is connect my router to the modem via Ethernet. When I've had modemless service via Ethernet jack, all I've had to do is connect my router to the wall Ethernet jack. So what are you talking about? Purchasing your own cable modem? Or something else that I've never had to do?
  - marvy 11y ago
    If you have DSL, the modem and the router are the same box, so if you want your own, you have to throw out the one the ISP gave you, and configure yours by yourself. In practice, I bet you could just call up the ISP if you're having trouble, but I agree that an ISP has an incentive to give you a good unit to start with.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      I haven't had DSL in a while, but when I did, the ISP just provided a modem with a phone line connector and a single ethernet connector. There's no requirement for DSL to bundle the modem and router.
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        Sure, lots of DSL ISPs used to do that in the old days before WiFi was a common consumer demand, and some still might. Now, the ISPs that are using DSL (e.g., AT&T U-Verse which uses VDSL2 where it isn't FTTP) seem (from what I've experienced and seen with other people that have DSL-based service) to deploy all-in-one modem/routers (and, when they have services like TV and Phone as well as basic internet, to run them through the supplied all-in-one box, as well.) > There's no requirement for DSL to bundle the modem and router. Sure, its not a theoretical requirement, just practically what ISPs seem to do now.
        mikeash 11y ago
        Gotcha, I thought it was being presented as some sort of technical constraint. An interesting variant on all of this is FiOS, which is often brought into the house on coax which plugs into their router. It's possible to buy something that will bridge the coax to ethernet, but they're pretty hard to find. I think this might be going away as they increase speeds. I originally had the coax, but then they replaced it with ethernet coming in to the house. I kept their router anyway because it actually seems to be pretty good.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > If you have DSL, the modem and the router are the same box, so if you want your own, you have to throw out the one the ISP gave you, and configure yours by yourself. The usual recommended approach I've seen is to keep the ISP-provided modem/router, plug your router into it, and make certain configuration changes on one or both of the devices (though, for the same ISP, I've seen conflicting information on the correct configuration changes, with clearly dated assumptions, but still possibly correct as far as it goes information, in the official information from the ISP.) But my basic point is that for most home users, they aren't conceptualizing it as spending separately on "internet service package" and "network hardware", the network hardware is part of the internet service package.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Are you saying that your ISP doesn't allow you to plug standard ethernet devices into their lines? Using your own router rather than the ISPs preconfigured router requires more than just plugging a personally-purchased router into their line (even in the simple case where you aren't using the ISPs bundled cable/phone/internet service that's all delivered through a common system.) At least in the simple case, someone with modest technical skill can figure out how to get that information relatively easily, but most ISP customers aren't even modestly technical.

RobotCaleb 11y ago
Since when? When I got my new router, I plugged it in and was online. I did some configuration (and flashing) afterwards, but it certainly worked when I plugged it in. Isn't that the point of consumer products?
wging 11y ago
When I've had a cable modem, all I've had to do is connect my router to the modem via Ethernet. When I've had modemless service via Ethernet jack, all I've had to do is connect my router to the wall Ethernet jack. So what are you talking about? Purchasing your own cable modem? Or something else that I've never had to do?
- marvy 11y ago
  If you have DSL, the modem and the router are the same box, so if you want your own, you have to throw out the one the ISP gave you, and configure yours by yourself. In practice, I bet you could just call up the ISP if you're having trouble, but I agree that an ISP has an incentive to give you a good unit to start with.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I haven't had DSL in a while, but when I did, the ISP just provided a modem with a phone line connector and a single ethernet connector. There's no requirement for DSL to bundle the modem and router.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      Sure, lots of DSL ISPs used to do that in the old days before WiFi was a common consumer demand, and some still might. Now, the ISPs that are using DSL (e.g., AT&T U-Verse which uses VDSL2 where it isn't FTTP) seem (from what I've experienced and seen with other people that have DSL-based service) to deploy all-in-one modem/routers (and, when they have services like TV and Phone as well as basic internet, to run them through the supplied all-in-one box, as well.) > There's no requirement for DSL to bundle the modem and router. Sure, its not a theoretical requirement, just practically what ISPs seem to do now.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Gotcha, I thought it was being presented as some sort of technical constraint. An interesting variant on all of this is FiOS, which is often brought into the house on coax which plugs into their router. It's possible to buy something that will bridge the coax to ethernet, but they're pretty hard to find. I think this might be going away as they increase speeds. I originally had the coax, but then they replaced it with ethernet coming in to the house. I kept their router anyway because it actually seems to be pretty good.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > If you have DSL, the modem and the router are the same box, so if you want your own, you have to throw out the one the ISP gave you, and configure yours by yourself. The usual recommended approach I've seen is to keep the ISP-provided modem/router, plug your router into it, and make certain configuration changes on one or both of the devices (though, for the same ISP, I've seen conflicting information on the correct configuration changes, with clearly dated assumptions, but still possibly correct as far as it goes information, in the official information from the ISP.) But my basic point is that for most home users, they aren't conceptualizing it as spending separately on "internet service package" and "network hardware", the network hardware is part of the internet service package.