2 ms·

"Ordinarily in Jepsen we’d refer to these as “primary” and “secondary” or “leader” and “follower” to avoid connotations of, well, slavery, but the master nodes

"Ordinarily in Jepsen we’d refer to these as “primary” and “secondary” or “leader” and “follower” to avoid connotations of, well, slavery, but the master nodes themselves form a cluster with leaders and followers, and terms like “executor” have other meanings in Mesos, so I’m going to use the Mesos terms here." hahaha, well naming things is one of the hardest problems in computer science after all.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
It's a total bikeshed issue, in any event. No one seems to mind the issue of Unix routinely forcing you to commit filicide and general killing of children, for instance.
- saryant 11y ago
  Or Akka's lovely akka.actor.dungeon.ChildrenContainer... http://doc.akka.io/japi/akka/2.3.9/akka/actor/dungeon/ChildrenContainer.html http://doc.akka.io/japi/akka/2.3.9/akka/actor/dungeon/Childr...
  - duskwuff 11y ago
    With a method called "shallDie", no less!
- justizin 11y ago
  There's a difference between that and trying to work on a diverse team with people whose ancestors were slaves and avoiding common phrases like: "We need more slaves!" It's a bit of nomenclature that would never be used if people weren't mimicking choices from decades ago. What name to use other than slave might be a bikeshed issue, but the bikeshed is currently painted with a confederate flag. ;)
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    You're only proving my point, really. The only things you can think of are Confederate flags and the trans-Atlantic slave trade, when slavery as an institution is as old as human civilization itself (and continues on well to this day). Incidentally, filicide is also ancient and ongoing.
    - gunsofbrixton 11y ago
      How are you not banned yet?
    - justizin 11y ago
      I can think of a lot of things other than Confederate flags, I was making a symbolic argument against your misuse of the word bikeshed. Slavery is a bad practice and I would definitely not work with someone who felt otherwise, but other than that, your argument is just worthless escapism. Have fun talking to HR in the future.
      - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
        My point was that trying to paint slavery as being particularly objectionable in the face of just as seemingly reprehensible (but not at all in context) metaphors of child murder, is disingenuous and pointlessly selective. Child murder and slavery are horrible and I can't believe I actually have to specify this. They are both ongoing, so your argument from ancestry doesn't work. There's millions of slaves as we speak, many more ancestors of slaves and many who have had their children murdered. That doesn't somehow make those metaphors irredeemable when put in purely technical context, e.g. slavery as a relationship of total control and ownership by one party over another (actually just as applicable to S/M -- a consensual sexual practice, as it is to real-life slavery). I will have fun talking to HR, thank you.
  - oasisbob 11y ago
    Also, slavery isn't a very good metaphor in many situations. If you have a DB "slave", the "master" really doesn't control it. The master doesn't enforce it's functionality. The master won't typically supervise it, the master doesn't own it. The master didn't buy it, and there's really no economics in the situation at all. When you view systems in terms of autonomy and commitments (ie, promise theory), the metaphor of slavery becomes grossly inaccurate when trying to describe what a system is really doing. I'd call it a replica instead.
    - j-pb 11y ago
      A replica suggests that all nodes are somewhat equal copies. On a master/slave bus, nothing works if the master is shut down. The master literally supervises everything by arbitrating communication. In a replica system like elastic search, failure of one node will usually just cause some other node to take over its task.
  - j-pb 11y ago
    Who gives a fuck about slavery in 18th century US, when there are 21 to 36 million slaves in the world today. That means that there are more people enslaved to...fucking...day, than at any other point in history. If you want to get the word changed do it out of respect for those living in slavery today, and not because some of the most privileged people on earth (first world software developers regardless their minority) could get their feelings hurt. I got the impression that the people most vocal about these terms don't really care about the issues. They just want the thrill of changing the world, without actually doing or changing anything. If we ban all the bad words from our vocabulary, it only serves to pretend the bad things they name don't exist.
antics 11y ago
It's worth noting that the Mesos project will actually be renaming "slave" to "agent." cf. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

It's a total bikeshed issue, in any event. No one seems to mind the issue of Unix routinely forcing you to commit filicide and general killing of children, for instance.

saryant 11y ago
Or Akka's lovely akka.actor.dungeon.ChildrenContainer... http://doc.akka.io/japi/akka/2.3.9/akka/actor/dungeon/ChildrenContainer.html http://doc.akka.io/japi/akka/2.3.9/akka/actor/dungeon/Childr...
- duskwuff 11y ago
  With a method called "shallDie", no less!
justizin 11y ago
There's a difference between that and trying to work on a diverse team with people whose ancestors were slaves and avoiding common phrases like: "We need more slaves!" It's a bit of nomenclature that would never be used if people weren't mimicking choices from decades ago. What name to use other than slave might be a bikeshed issue, but the bikeshed is currently painted with a confederate flag. ;)
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  You're only proving my point, really. The only things you can think of are Confederate flags and the trans-Atlantic slave trade, when slavery as an institution is as old as human civilization itself (and continues on well to this day). Incidentally, filicide is also ancient and ongoing.
  - gunsofbrixton 11y ago
    How are you not banned yet?
  - justizin 11y ago
    I can think of a lot of things other than Confederate flags, I was making a symbolic argument against your misuse of the word bikeshed. Slavery is a bad practice and I would definitely not work with someone who felt otherwise, but other than that, your argument is just worthless escapism. Have fun talking to HR in the future.
    - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
      My point was that trying to paint slavery as being particularly objectionable in the face of just as seemingly reprehensible (but not at all in context) metaphors of child murder, is disingenuous and pointlessly selective. Child murder and slavery are horrible and I can't believe I actually have to specify this. They are both ongoing, so your argument from ancestry doesn't work. There's millions of slaves as we speak, many more ancestors of slaves and many who have had their children murdered. That doesn't somehow make those metaphors irredeemable when put in purely technical context, e.g. slavery as a relationship of total control and ownership by one party over another (actually just as applicable to S/M -- a consensual sexual practice, as it is to real-life slavery). I will have fun talking to HR, thank you.
- oasisbob 11y ago
  Also, slavery isn't a very good metaphor in many situations. If you have a DB "slave", the "master" really doesn't control it. The master doesn't enforce it's functionality. The master won't typically supervise it, the master doesn't own it. The master didn't buy it, and there's really no economics in the situation at all. When you view systems in terms of autonomy and commitments (ie, promise theory), the metaphor of slavery becomes grossly inaccurate when trying to describe what a system is really doing. I'd call it a replica instead.
  - j-pb 11y ago
    A replica suggests that all nodes are somewhat equal copies. On a master/slave bus, nothing works if the master is shut down. The master literally supervises everything by arbitrating communication. In a replica system like elastic search, failure of one node will usually just cause some other node to take over its task.
- j-pb 11y ago
  Who gives a fuck about slavery in 18th century US, when there are 21 to 36 million slaves in the world today. That means that there are more people enslaved to...fucking...day, than at any other point in history. If you want to get the word changed do it out of respect for those living in slavery today, and not because some of the most privileged people on earth (first world software developers regardless their minority) could get their feelings hurt. I got the impression that the people most vocal about these terms don't really care about the issues. They just want the thrill of changing the world, without actually doing or changing anything. If we ban all the bad words from our vocabulary, it only serves to pretend the bad things they name don't exist.

antics 11y ago

It's worth noting that the Mesos project will actually be renaming "slave" to "agent." cf. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MESOS-1478