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When we decided to add a reading list to Firefox, we had two options: build and maintain our own service and integrations, or partner with an established player

When we decided to add a reading list to Firefox, we had two options: build and maintain our own service and integrations, or partner with an established player who had sane privacy and data access policies. We chose the latter. Pocket began life as a Firefox add-on, and is now integrated into literally hundreds of applications. Embracing that is a reasonable choice in terms of sustainability and value for users. For what it's worth, I do not believe any money changed hands in the Pocket deal, but I don't know that authoritatively.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
gcommer 11y ago
I could care less about their being a third party--we already have that with the search bar (and it's been promised that Pocket integration was just a step towards a more general Reading list API, though I don't know how well that's been followed through with). What annoys me is that baking features like Hello and Pocket into the browser doesn't strike me as "promoting openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web," it just seems like a desperate attempt to regain market share. I believe the root of this change-in-mission is well expressed in a post by David Rajchenbach-Teller [1]: While I personally want a browser that is fast, small, reliable and trustworthy, we have market research that shows us that you and I are a minority. More precisely, we have market numbers that shows that users want a Pocket-like feature and are not going to bother checking if there are add-ons that implement it. I would be very surprised if the kind of users who won't check for addons are also the kinds of users who would go out of the way to change their browser (... or even know what a browser is). [1] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/2PYq2w8tejs/RZXaIOG8YiwJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/2PYq2w8te...
pseudalopex 11y ago
I use Firefox partly because I thought Mozilla's definition of "sane privacy and data access policies" involved client-side encryption. My parents understood that Mozilla couldn't see their bookmarks; now they understand that Mozilla can see some of their bookmarks but aren't sure which. Even if I didn't care about my personal privacy, I still couldn't use Pocket at work because of company policy.
nacs 11y ago
> We chose the latter And as a long-time user of Firefox, this is what got me to stop using Firefox. There's been tons of people asking for the removal of Pocket from Firefox including hundreds of posts in the Mozilla governance forum asking for its removal but Mozilla sits there doing nothing claiming "sane privacy" and "oh you can disable it by going to your about:config and finding this key and setting it to false". Package it as an uninstallable extension or get rid of it completely.
- callahad 11y ago
  > There's been tons of people asking for the removal of Pocket from Firefox That's true. However, we have surveyed large swaths of our users and found that for all the people that dislike the Pocket integration, several times as many actively do like it. They're not you or me, but barring a significant sampling error, it means the dissenters are a vocal but small minority. Of course, both classes are overshadowed by the proportion of users who don't care one way or another. > "oh you can disable it by going to your about:config and finding this key and setting it to false" That's false. From day one, you could disable Pocket entirely by right clicking on it and choosing "Remove from Toolbar" or by dragging it off the toolbar in the customization mode.
  - MagerValp 11y ago
    And as another long-time user of Firefox, I'm grateful that you keep adding useful things like Pocket. Any news on when the integration ships in non-US locales? That one had me stumped for a bit where I got Pocket on one box but not the other :)
  - hueving 11y ago
    baked in browser add-ons shouldn't be a popularity contest. I'm sure a facebook add-on would make tons of people happy as well. Yet you don't have that built-in.
  - norea-armozel 11y ago
    I'm sorry, but this logic doesn't make much sense when you consider the fact that it's a third party service which may not be there next quarter or even next year. How about you just do the right thing and unbundle the extension? Make it an opt-in by default. Not an opt-out.
listic 11y ago
> Pocket began life as a Firefox add-on And that's what it should have remained! Promote it all you like on your websites, but please let it, and all featurees like it, be separate from the main web browsing functionality, because far from every one of your users wants or needs this! I, and I'm sure many other Firefox users are deeply disappointed by the Mozilla track record of including questionable features such as this. That's why, I have already started [1] figuring out how to switch to ESR channel by default on all systems that I have control over: I want the security updates, but I don't have the time and effort necessary to browse through all the crap features Mozilla introduces and figure out how to tweak and/or disable them on a six-week basis. [1] http://askubuntu.com/q/659246/181242 http://askubuntu.com/q/659246/181242
logophobia 11y ago
Bloat like pocket/hello is a trap. The original mozilla suite had e-mail, a newsgroup reader, irc chat and html development tools all embedded. Sounds useful, but who used it? Only power users and enthousiasts. I imagine a share of users are enthousiastic about pocket, but it also subtily makes the whole browser less attractive. Complexity intimidates and scares off users and makes software harder to use. All firefox' competitors are extremely streamlined and simple, and that works. Firefox got popular intially because it was simple. Chrome became popular fast because it was faster and more streamlined than firefox. And by integrating all these extra services, firefox makes itself less streamlined and less useable. I stick with firefox because chrome has some dubious privacy defaults, but that's really the only advantage firefox has over its competitors from my perspective.
xiaomai 11y ago
fwiw, I actually use Firefox (I say that because I assume most of the complainers don't) and was thinking of making my own reading-list service, but Firefox integrating with Pocket saved me the trouble. I use the integration many times a day and it's great. Not sure why this gets so much negative attention (it's not like it's spying on you if you don't use it).

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

gcommer 11y ago

I could care less about their being a third party--we already have that with the search bar (and it's been promised that Pocket integration was just a step towards a more general Reading list API, though I don't know how well that's been followed through with). What annoys me is that baking features like Hello and Pocket into the browser doesn't strike me as "promoting openness, innovation & opportunity on the Web," it just seems like a desperate attempt to regain market share. I believe the root of this change-in-mission is well expressed in a post by David Rajchenbach-Teller [1]: While I personally want a browser that is fast, small, reliable and trustworthy, we have market research that shows us that you and I are a minority. More precisely, we have market numbers that shows that users want a Pocket-like feature and are not going to bother checking if there are add-ons that implement it. I would be very surprised if the kind of users who won't check for addons are also the kinds of users who would go out of the way to change their browser (... or even know what a browser is). [1] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/2PYq2w8tejs/RZXaIOG8YiwJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/2PYq2w8te...

pseudalopex 11y ago

I use Firefox partly because I thought Mozilla's definition of "sane privacy and data access policies" involved client-side encryption. My parents understood that Mozilla couldn't see their bookmarks; now they understand that Mozilla can see some of their bookmarks but aren't sure which. Even if I didn't care about my personal privacy, I still couldn't use Pocket at work because of company policy.

nacs 11y ago

> We chose the latter And as a long-time user of Firefox, this is what got me to stop using Firefox. There's been tons of people asking for the removal of Pocket from Firefox including hundreds of posts in the Mozilla governance forum asking for its removal but Mozilla sits there doing nothing claiming "sane privacy" and "oh you can disable it by going to your about:config and finding this key and setting it to false". Package it as an uninstallable extension or get rid of it completely.

callahad 11y ago
> There's been tons of people asking for the removal of Pocket from Firefox That's true. However, we have surveyed large swaths of our users and found that for all the people that dislike the Pocket integration, several times as many actively do like it. They're not you or me, but barring a significant sampling error, it means the dissenters are a vocal but small minority. Of course, both classes are overshadowed by the proportion of users who don't care one way or another. > "oh you can disable it by going to your about:config and finding this key and setting it to false" That's false. From day one, you could disable Pocket entirely by right clicking on it and choosing "Remove from Toolbar" or by dragging it off the toolbar in the customization mode.
- MagerValp 11y ago
  And as another long-time user of Firefox, I'm grateful that you keep adding useful things like Pocket. Any news on when the integration ships in non-US locales? That one had me stumped for a bit where I got Pocket on one box but not the other :)
- hueving 11y ago
  baked in browser add-ons shouldn't be a popularity contest. I'm sure a facebook add-on would make tons of people happy as well. Yet you don't have that built-in.
- norea-armozel 11y ago
  I'm sorry, but this logic doesn't make much sense when you consider the fact that it's a third party service which may not be there next quarter or even next year. How about you just do the right thing and unbundle the extension? Make it an opt-in by default. Not an opt-out.

listic 11y ago

> Pocket began life as a Firefox add-on And that's what it should have remained! Promote it all you like on your websites, but please let it, and all featurees like it, be separate from the main web browsing functionality, because far from every one of your users wants or needs this! I, and I'm sure many other Firefox users are deeply disappointed by the Mozilla track record of including questionable features such as this. That's why, I have already started [1] figuring out how to switch to ESR channel by default on all systems that I have control over: I want the security updates, but I don't have the time and effort necessary to browse through all the crap features Mozilla introduces and figure out how to tweak and/or disable them on a six-week basis. [1] http://askubuntu.com/q/659246/181242 http://askubuntu.com/q/659246/181242

logophobia 11y ago

Bloat like pocket/hello is a trap. The original mozilla suite had e-mail, a newsgroup reader, irc chat and html development tools all embedded. Sounds useful, but who used it? Only power users and enthousiasts. I imagine a share of users are enthousiastic about pocket, but it also subtily makes the whole browser less attractive. Complexity intimidates and scares off users and makes software harder to use. All firefox' competitors are extremely streamlined and simple, and that works. Firefox got popular intially because it was simple. Chrome became popular fast because it was faster and more streamlined than firefox. And by integrating all these extra services, firefox makes itself less streamlined and less useable. I stick with firefox because chrome has some dubious privacy defaults, but that's really the only advantage firefox has over its competitors from my perspective.

xiaomai 11y ago

fwiw, I actually use Firefox (I say that because I assume most of the complainers don't) and was thinking of making my own reading-list service, but Firefox integrating with Pocket saved me the trouble. I use the integration many times a day and it's great. Not sure why this gets so much negative attention (it's not like it's spying on you if you don't use it).