9 ms·

I wish they (FCC, FTC et al) would look into other convention center trade practices. Convention center workers are heavily unionized and exhibitors are forced

I wish they (FCC, FTC et al) would look into other convention center trade practices. Convention center workers are heavily unionized and exhibitors are forced to pay abnormal rates for any kind of local labor or rental services. You can't bring your own service providers and you can't DIY either in most cases.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
beachstartup 11y ago
you should have seen the dirty looks we got from the union guys at one convention when we came late and decided to setup our booth ourselves.
- FireBeyond 11y ago
  You were lucky, I'm surprised they didn't flat out demand from the convention organizers that you either dismantle for them to reassemble, or were billed what it would have cost them to set up themselves.
  - beachstartup 11y ago
    now that you mention it, i think we were billed a setup fee. we just had to do it quick because the thing had already started.
tfinniga 11y ago
Convention center rates are kind of ridiculous, but they're sort of like airports in that they both charge ridiculous rates for common goods in their controlled areas. Also similar to airports, I doubt that the local monopoly is illegal since it's usually the city that sets it up. The problem here seems to be that they were messing with transmissions, which the FCC has control over. Although I agree, just because it's legal doesn't make it less of a pain. Back when I was an exhibitor at conferences, we used to get Ikea furniture delivered to the hotel, carry it in, assemble it ourselves, and just leave it at the end of the conference. It was about 1/8 the price of rental furniture. Different convention centers have different rules, but the ones I went to used to allow you to assemble anything you could bring in the front doors. If it came in the back doors you'd need to pay drayage and assembly fees. We had a collapsible booth that was very useful in this regard.
- ams6110 11y ago
  Convention centers are often built with taxing authority bonds, and then the monopolies used as kickbacks to local unions and service providers. Very cozy.
  - 6stringmerc 11y ago
    Or, in other MadLibs terms: ___Municipal facilities___ are often built with ___municipal obligation/revenue____ bonds, and then the monopolies used as ___opportunities___ to local unions and service providers.
mikeash 11y ago
That seems like the sort of thing that doesn't need government intervention. Complain to the conference organizers and maybe you can get them to switch to a better venue. Worst case, don't exhibit at conferences that use places like this.
- njharman 11y ago
  Venues (over a certain size) are near monopolies. There is only one Moscone Center. You could hold event at Cow Palace, but that's not the same level of facility, nor so optimally placed.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    There are lots of other conference centers. That Moscone happens to be the only big one located in downtown San Francisco doesn't make it a monopoly, that's merely a competitive advantage, and competitive advantages often let places charge more.
    - ubernostrum 11y ago
      (this is something I have experience with) Unfortunately, there's really no market-based solution to convention-center practices. Competing for desirable locations -- say, by building your own convention center and charging less/having better practices -- is close enough to impossible that we can just call it impossible. And given how often convention centers are funded by the taxpayers, it's only fair for the taxpayers to impose conditions on how their money will be used.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Even if there's only one convention center in an area that's suitable, there are a lot of cities with convention centers out there. Lots of conventions are not particularly tied down to a location, other than for sentimental reasons. I get that the situation sucks. I've been there too. But ultimately you're paying this tremendous premium not because there's literally no choice, which is what a monopoly would entail, but merely because it's worth it over the alternative. I think the fact that these things are often owned by the local governments is a good reason why they shouldn't be doing stuff like this, but that seems like a remedy to ask for from the local governments in question, rather than some sort of federal investigation.
URSpider94 11y ago
This is well known to professional convention planners and service companies such as GES and Freeman. It's not going to change any time soon. Each venue has its own rules, depending upon the strength of the local unions. I've worked at trade shows around the country. In many cases, I've been able to assemble my own booth, plug in my own electricals once they've run the drops for us, etc. For infamous venues like Chicago and Las Vegas, you're going to pay for everything beyond sticking up some posters, including even plugging in a light. Conference organizers who book these venues are making a conscious choice that the inconvenience and cost to their exhibitors pays off in increased attendance.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

beachstartup 11y ago

you should have seen the dirty looks we got from the union guys at one convention when we came late and decided to setup our booth ourselves.

FireBeyond 11y ago
You were lucky, I'm surprised they didn't flat out demand from the convention organizers that you either dismantle for them to reassemble, or were billed what it would have cost them to set up themselves.
- beachstartup 11y ago
  now that you mention it, i think we were billed a setup fee. we just had to do it quick because the thing had already started.

tfinniga 11y ago

Convention center rates are kind of ridiculous, but they're sort of like airports in that they both charge ridiculous rates for common goods in their controlled areas. Also similar to airports, I doubt that the local monopoly is illegal since it's usually the city that sets it up. The problem here seems to be that they were messing with transmissions, which the FCC has control over. Although I agree, just because it's legal doesn't make it less of a pain. Back when I was an exhibitor at conferences, we used to get Ikea furniture delivered to the hotel, carry it in, assemble it ourselves, and just leave it at the end of the conference. It was about 1/8 the price of rental furniture. Different convention centers have different rules, but the ones I went to used to allow you to assemble anything you could bring in the front doors. If it came in the back doors you'd need to pay drayage and assembly fees. We had a collapsible booth that was very useful in this regard.

ams6110 11y ago
Convention centers are often built with taxing authority bonds, and then the monopolies used as kickbacks to local unions and service providers. Very cozy.
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  Or, in other MadLibs terms: ___Municipal facilities___ are often built with ___municipal obligation/revenue____ bonds, and then the monopolies used as ___opportunities___ to local unions and service providers.

mikeash 11y ago

That seems like the sort of thing that doesn't need government intervention. Complain to the conference organizers and maybe you can get them to switch to a better venue. Worst case, don't exhibit at conferences that use places like this.

njharman 11y ago
Venues (over a certain size) are near monopolies. There is only one Moscone Center. You could hold event at Cow Palace, but that's not the same level of facility, nor so optimally placed.
- mikeash 11y ago
  There are lots of other conference centers. That Moscone happens to be the only big one located in downtown San Francisco doesn't make it a monopoly, that's merely a competitive advantage, and competitive advantages often let places charge more.
  - ubernostrum 11y ago
    (this is something I have experience with) Unfortunately, there's really no market-based solution to convention-center practices. Competing for desirable locations -- say, by building your own convention center and charging less/having better practices -- is close enough to impossible that we can just call it impossible. And given how often convention centers are funded by the taxpayers, it's only fair for the taxpayers to impose conditions on how their money will be used.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Even if there's only one convention center in an area that's suitable, there are a lot of cities with convention centers out there. Lots of conventions are not particularly tied down to a location, other than for sentimental reasons. I get that the situation sucks. I've been there too. But ultimately you're paying this tremendous premium not because there's literally no choice, which is what a monopoly would entail, but merely because it's worth it over the alternative. I think the fact that these things are often owned by the local governments is a good reason why they shouldn't be doing stuff like this, but that seems like a remedy to ask for from the local governments in question, rather than some sort of federal investigation.

URSpider94 11y ago

This is well known to professional convention planners and service companies such as GES and Freeman. It's not going to change any time soon. Each venue has its own rules, depending upon the strength of the local unions. I've worked at trade shows around the country. In many cases, I've been able to assemble my own booth, plug in my own electricals once they've run the drops for us, etc. For infamous venues like Chicago and Las Vegas, you're going to pay for everything beyond sticking up some posters, including even plugging in a light. Conference organizers who book these venues are making a conscious choice that the inconvenience and cost to their exhibitors pays off in increased attendance.