4 ms·

If he could actually fix the software, it's possible he could break the digital lock to get there. And it would be illegal. So what? At this point, it should be

by joesmo 11y ago

If he could actually fix the software, it's possible he could break the digital lock to get there. And it would be illegal. So what? At this point, it should be no surprise to anyone that just about everyone in America needs to break the law on a daily basis to live. It's not news. Just don't get caught. Honestly, I'm tired of reading articles about yet another everyday activity that's illegal in the land of the free. If a solution was proposed, I'd be all ears, but as it stands, no one has a workable solution for the abomination our legal and penal systems have become. Otherwise, this is just another example of freedom amongst too many to count. (NOTE: Some sarcasm present above.)

stcredzero 11y ago
What's keeping this from being a campaign issue? The DMCA is a badly thought-out pernicious law. It interferes with academic and research work. It interferes with the independent DIY spirit of people like this farmer. It means we effectively do not fully own our own stuff that we've paid for. Why isn't this a campaign issue? Can someone paint me a picture concerning demographics, campaign finance, backed up with data?
- alistairSH 11y ago
  What's keeping this from being a campaign issue? Money. Sony/Ford/JohnDeere has more of it than you or I.
  - stcredzero 11y ago
    If everyone who could be affected by this donated $5, that would be a whole lot. I also recognize that it's probably not going to happen.
- Phlarp 11y ago
  Campaign issues get made out of topics or concerns that statistically relevant numbers of people consider a good enough reason alone to vote for someone, these are called "single issue voters" -- Abortion is generally the easiest example as both parties use either side of the debate as a single issue lightning rod and large numbers of people will ignore all other positions any given politician advocates for or against, just so long as they are unwavering on their commitment to protect [unborn life|a woman's right to choose]. Previously gay marriage was a similar issue, although that particular topic is mostly moot at this point, at least as far as American politics are concerned. Copyright reform, along with corporate tax reform, both get rolled into more general economic concerns, the most prominent of which will always be unemployment. Which rarely becomes a serious issue in campaigns unless the jobless rate is particularly high. Rand Paul and Chris Christie are both attempting to make state surveillance a "single issue voter" concern, I imagine this would be the best place to attempt to slip copyright concerns in alongside-- however, I doubt wiretapping or copyright is a big enough issue to become a real driver of campaigns the way abortion is.
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    Given how much the Iowa primary matters, and how much farming there is in Iowa, there may be some leverage there to make it an issue on the national stage...
ArkyBeagle 11y ago
But for something like a tractor, the firmware is part of the machine. If you could change it, you might get it to say, break EPA regs for carbon emissions or otherwise behave in an unsafe manner. With all due respect, it sounds like they guy just doesn't wanna pay a tech to come out ( whether the reason is cost in dollars or cost in time ) . I don't blame him at all, but these things have to be done in a controlled manner. And strictly speaking, the thing shouldn't be broken in the first place. I won't go as far as to say engine monitors should never have any problems upon release, but it's close to that. This sort of thing should be close to "C.A.R. Tony Hoare complete" and very nearly provably correct.
- wvenable 11y ago
  > If you could change it, you might get it to say, break EPA regs for carbon emissions or otherwise behave in an unsafe manner. People have been doing this for a hundred years. You could always change a machine to make it unsafe. This has only become illegal now that software is involved. The idea that people are no longer able to fix their own equipment, or that it has to be done "in a controlled manner", is a new idea. As a society, we've been heading down this slippery slope for a long time and it's now to the point that your opinion isn't outside of the norm even on a site called Hacker News. It's overall a lack of trust for one's fellow man. Here you are arguing about farmers breaking EPA regs or making their own equipment unsafe. When farmers are arguing to be able to make their equipment work when it needs to work using their own skills.
  - ArkyBeagle 11y ago
    You are 100% correct, but from the perspective of the tractor manufacturer's legal team... It is a new idea. And the irony of me saying this on Hacker News is thick as cheese. I do have to wonder how a farmer can "fix" code for an engine status display. If it's just "broken" broken, then you'd need parts anyway.
- SolarNet 11y ago
  Regulations like the EPA regulations typically only apply to selling the hardware. If you own and operate it on your own property and never sell it to anyone you have a lot more leeway.

by joesmo 11y ago

stcredzero 11y ago

What's keeping this from being a campaign issue? The DMCA is a badly thought-out pernicious law. It interferes with academic and research work. It interferes with the independent DIY spirit of people like this farmer. It means we effectively do not fully own our own stuff that we've paid for. Why isn't this a campaign issue? Can someone paint me a picture concerning demographics, campaign finance, backed up with data?

alistairSH 11y ago
What's keeping this from being a campaign issue? Money. Sony/Ford/JohnDeere has more of it than you or I.
- stcredzero 11y ago
  If everyone who could be affected by this donated $5, that would be a whole lot. I also recognize that it's probably not going to happen.
Phlarp 11y ago
Campaign issues get made out of topics or concerns that statistically relevant numbers of people consider a good enough reason alone to vote for someone, these are called "single issue voters" -- Abortion is generally the easiest example as both parties use either side of the debate as a single issue lightning rod and large numbers of people will ignore all other positions any given politician advocates for or against, just so long as they are unwavering on their commitment to protect [unborn life|a woman's right to choose]. Previously gay marriage was a similar issue, although that particular topic is mostly moot at this point, at least as far as American politics are concerned. Copyright reform, along with corporate tax reform, both get rolled into more general economic concerns, the most prominent of which will always be unemployment. Which rarely becomes a serious issue in campaigns unless the jobless rate is particularly high. Rand Paul and Chris Christie are both attempting to make state surveillance a "single issue voter" concern, I imagine this would be the best place to attempt to slip copyright concerns in alongside-- however, I doubt wiretapping or copyright is a big enough issue to become a real driver of campaigns the way abortion is.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  Given how much the Iowa primary matters, and how much farming there is in Iowa, there may be some leverage there to make it an issue on the national stage...

ArkyBeagle 11y ago

But for something like a tractor, the firmware is part of the machine. If you could change it, you might get it to say, break EPA regs for carbon emissions or otherwise behave in an unsafe manner. With all due respect, it sounds like they guy just doesn't wanna pay a tech to come out ( whether the reason is cost in dollars or cost in time ) . I don't blame him at all, but these things have to be done in a controlled manner. And strictly speaking, the thing shouldn't be broken in the first place. I won't go as far as to say engine monitors should never have any problems upon release, but it's close to that. This sort of thing should be close to "C.A.R. Tony Hoare complete" and very nearly provably correct.

wvenable 11y ago
> If you could change it, you might get it to say, break EPA regs for carbon emissions or otherwise behave in an unsafe manner. People have been doing this for a hundred years. You could always change a machine to make it unsafe. This has only become illegal now that software is involved. The idea that people are no longer able to fix their own equipment, or that it has to be done "in a controlled manner", is a new idea. As a society, we've been heading down this slippery slope for a long time and it's now to the point that your opinion isn't outside of the norm even on a site called Hacker News. It's overall a lack of trust for one's fellow man. Here you are arguing about farmers breaking EPA regs or making their own equipment unsafe. When farmers are arguing to be able to make their equipment work when it needs to work using their own skills.
- ArkyBeagle 11y ago
  You are 100% correct, but from the perspective of the tractor manufacturer's legal team... It is a new idea. And the irony of me saying this on Hacker News is thick as cheese. I do have to wonder how a farmer can "fix" code for an engine status display. If it's just "broken" broken, then you'd need parts anyway.
SolarNet 11y ago
Regulations like the EPA regulations typically only apply to selling the hardware. If you own and operate it on your own property and never sell it to anyone you have a lot more leeway.