5 ms·

I think most of the amazement came from the time they were in. In that time this was truly revolutionary. Having a whole OS based on it is still arguably revolu

by jules 11y ago

I think most of the amazement came from the time they were in. In that time this was truly revolutionary. Having a whole OS based on it is still arguably revolutionary, but from a programming/IDE perspective I don't think they are anything special any more. As far as I know a modern Lisp + Emacs gives you roughly the same experience.

pjmlp 11y ago
Emacs fails short because it doesn't allow for live editing of inline data structures, unless it has changed on the last years. Dr Racket's REPL is probably closer to the experience. Also very few IDEs enjoy the same edit-continue experience, maybe commercial Common Lisp environments.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Not sure what you mean by "live editing of inline data structures" here (care to give an example?), but the interactive debugger in Emacs/SLIME can do quite a lot of nice things, including modifying arbitrary data on the fly, live. For instance, if I have a hashtable returned from a function I called in REPL, I can inspect it and modify its values and properties. Also, within the REPL itself, text is "smart" and copy-paste tracks references, so I can paste the "unreadable objects" (i.e. #<Foo 0xCAFECAFE>) directly into REPL calls and have it work, because SLIME will track the reference linked to a particular piece of text output.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    Check the example of image editing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4-YnLpLgtk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4-YnLpLgtk
  - lispm 11y ago
    The presentation based REPL in Emacs + SLIME was inspired by the Symbolics Lisp Machine presentation feature. But I can assure you, there is a difference of a REPL feature in an editor and a GUI using it system wide, as on the Lisp Machine. Both in depth of the features, integration and the feel of the user interface.
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Haven't had a chance to experience it myself yet. I'm watching the videos now though and I think I begin to see the difference.
      - lispm 11y ago
        Check out this video (which I made some time ago), which shows the presentation UI from an application perspective (here a document authoring system) and as a bonus, the application integrates Zmacs (the Emacs of the Lisp Machine)... https://vimeo.com/83886950 https://vimeo.com/83886950 Think of the Documentation Examiner a version of Emacs Info. Think of Concordia as a version of an Emacs buffer editing documentation records. The listener a version of the Slime listener. You can also a short glimpse of the graphics editor, IIRC.
        TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Thanks a lot! I'll watch it after work and get back with impressions :).

by jules 11y ago

pjmlp 11y ago

Emacs fails short because it doesn't allow for live editing of inline data structures, unless it has changed on the last years. Dr Racket's REPL is probably closer to the experience. Also very few IDEs enjoy the same edit-continue experience, maybe commercial Common Lisp environments.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
Not sure what you mean by "live editing of inline data structures" here (care to give an example?), but the interactive debugger in Emacs/SLIME can do quite a lot of nice things, including modifying arbitrary data on the fly, live. For instance, if I have a hashtable returned from a function I called in REPL, I can inspect it and modify its values and properties. Also, within the REPL itself, text is "smart" and copy-paste tracks references, so I can paste the "unreadable objects" (i.e. #<Foo 0xCAFECAFE>) directly into REPL calls and have it work, because SLIME will track the reference linked to a particular piece of text output.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  Check the example of image editing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4-YnLpLgtk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4-YnLpLgtk
- lispm 11y ago
  The presentation based REPL in Emacs + SLIME was inspired by the Symbolics Lisp Machine presentation feature. But I can assure you, there is a difference of a REPL feature in an editor and a GUI using it system wide, as on the Lisp Machine. Both in depth of the features, integration and the feel of the user interface.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Haven't had a chance to experience it myself yet. I'm watching the videos now though and I think I begin to see the difference.
    - lispm 11y ago
      Check out this video (which I made some time ago), which shows the presentation UI from an application perspective (here a document authoring system) and as a bonus, the application integrates Zmacs (the Emacs of the Lisp Machine)... https://vimeo.com/83886950 https://vimeo.com/83886950 Think of the Documentation Examiner a version of Emacs Info. Think of Concordia as a version of an Emacs buffer editing documentation records. The listener a version of the Slime listener. You can also a short glimpse of the graphics editor, IIRC.
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        Thanks a lot! I'll watch it after work and get back with impressions :).