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I'm thinking of a possible regulated solution to this... What would be the inconvenients of banning car circulation inside cities? EDIT: Well, it would be much

I'm thinking of a possible regulated solution to this... What would be the inconvenients of banning car circulation inside cities? EDIT: Well, it would be much harder to carry "big" amounts of personal property. Maybe only allow a taxi-like van service? Or taxis.

masklinn 11y ago
> What would be the inconvenients of banning car circulation inside cities? Depends how the city is setup. Most major metropolis and almost all US ones are designed mostly if not solely for cars, banning cars requires significant improvements to the transportation infrastructure in general, both adding public transport and making existing ways more walkable and cyclable. Even in non-US cities the transition tends to be rocky (e.g. I believe Paris is progressively making the inner city less drivable and further improving public transport, the transition phase is no fun as driving becomes very tough but not-driving is not a great option). You also have to figure out stuff like deliveries and garbage collection, which generally require trucks going through. But some cities are planning it, Hamburg is trying to become car-free within 20 years for instance. Freiburg also has the "pilot" district of Vauban which was laid out with peripheral car parks (owners must buy a parking spot or sign a declaration of no car ownership) and following filtered permeability (the further in you go the less convenient cars become, and the more convenient walking or cycling). There are also no parking spot inside the neighbourhood. Cars are not outright forbidden (they're allowed "at walking pace" for pickup or delivery) their absence is mostly a consequence of social consensus.
- netrus 11y ago
  In Hamburg we now have an IKEA in a shopping street, where most customers come without cars. It sure is possible to build car free cities. Yes, you have to allow transporters and garbage collection and buses, but that still is an significant reduction of car traffic, changing the air, atmosphere and sound of the city. Germany has prepared infrastructure to disallow old cars from city centers - maybe just eCars in some years? It's easy if you try :P
- Jacqued 11y ago
  Paris is gradually phasing cars out, in several ways, but even today most Parisians are non-drivers, especially the younger ones, and not-driving is a great choice. Of course people who live in the suburbs need a car but even there, public transportation is slowly catching up. There is an ongoing general effort to make cars painful to use, that had been unfolding year after year over the last decade. I think that's a great strategy to kick the cars out of the city. - Remove parking spots. Every year, hundreds to thousands of parking spots are removed throughout the city. (Shared bikes and cars have been great for this as they took an astonishing amount of space from regular parking and made use of it instead of just forbidding parking) - Add bus and bike lines at the expense of regular car lanes. - Regularly hike parking prices. This year parking went up 15%, and residential parking went up 200%. - Hike fines for parking infringement Today fines are 17/33€, there are talks to increase them to 60/135 next year. - Slow down cars overall. 90% of the city is to be limited to 30kph soon (regular city limit is 50). Many areas are limited to 20kph. - Add speed traps and red-light traps all over. - Entire districts are planned to go car-free in the next few years. Taken together, these changes really do add up and, as we already have good public transportation, there are fewer and fewer reasons to own a car in Paris. I think the good approach here is to start by removing cars in the city center, then gradually kick them out of the outer boroughs as infrastructure allows it.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    Yes you're right my comment comes across as way overly negative with respect to the liveability of not driving in Paris, even though I almost never drove there (and hated every second of driving I had to do). Thank you for the expansion and details.
noobermin 11y ago
My girlfriend lives in Singapore and travels exclusively by public transport. She recently moved across the city and how she did this was by incrementally moving things. Moreover, when I visited her, I noticed she was good at being light, only packing the essentials when she goes out, which is something I try to do too, since I bike exclusively. Essentially, it comes down to changes of habit. You learn to cope with not having a huge cart to carry things around with. With the loss of convenience you get better health, less traffic, less noise pollution, etc.
3pt14159 11y ago
We've already tried various solutions to this problem and the one that seems to work best is to gradually degrade the road experience for motorists as demands on the space go up. First we take away street parking and left turns. Then we take away stopping / idling. Then we make carpool / high occupancy vehicle lanes and bike lanes. Then we convert lanes into transit lanes only. Then we completely prohibit cars / motored deliveries during rush hour. The last one is usually the hardest politically to get through because it is a major disruption to many businesses, but it is quite effective and usually leads to a great number of people switching to mass transit and bike lanes.
pjc50 11y ago
London has its "congestion charge", which is an extra charge of about $15 to drive in the core of the city. It's still pretty congested. It also has plenty of public transport options which are also congested.
- technomancy 11y ago
  Some cities in China, as well as Manila IIRC, only allow cars in the city on certain days based on their license plate numbers. Even, then odd, back and forth. Of course this means rich people just buy two cars, so it doesn't quite have the intended effect.

masklinn 11y ago

> What would be the inconvenients of banning car circulation inside cities? Depends how the city is setup. Most major metropolis and almost all US ones are designed mostly if not solely for cars, banning cars requires significant improvements to the transportation infrastructure in general, both adding public transport and making existing ways more walkable and cyclable. Even in non-US cities the transition tends to be rocky (e.g. I believe Paris is progressively making the inner city less drivable and further improving public transport, the transition phase is no fun as driving becomes very tough but not-driving is not a great option). You also have to figure out stuff like deliveries and garbage collection, which generally require trucks going through. But some cities are planning it, Hamburg is trying to become car-free within 20 years for instance. Freiburg also has the "pilot" district of Vauban which was laid out with peripheral car parks (owners must buy a parking spot or sign a declaration of no car ownership) and following filtered permeability (the further in you go the less convenient cars become, and the more convenient walking or cycling). There are also no parking spot inside the neighbourhood. Cars are not outright forbidden (they're allowed "at walking pace" for pickup or delivery) their absence is mostly a consequence of social consensus.

netrus 11y ago
In Hamburg we now have an IKEA in a shopping street, where most customers come without cars. It sure is possible to build car free cities. Yes, you have to allow transporters and garbage collection and buses, but that still is an significant reduction of car traffic, changing the air, atmosphere and sound of the city. Germany has prepared infrastructure to disallow old cars from city centers - maybe just eCars in some years? It's easy if you try :P
Jacqued 11y ago
Paris is gradually phasing cars out, in several ways, but even today most Parisians are non-drivers, especially the younger ones, and not-driving is a great choice. Of course people who live in the suburbs need a car but even there, public transportation is slowly catching up. There is an ongoing general effort to make cars painful to use, that had been unfolding year after year over the last decade. I think that's a great strategy to kick the cars out of the city. - Remove parking spots. Every year, hundreds to thousands of parking spots are removed throughout the city. (Shared bikes and cars have been great for this as they took an astonishing amount of space from regular parking and made use of it instead of just forbidding parking) - Add bus and bike lines at the expense of regular car lanes. - Regularly hike parking prices. This year parking went up 15%, and residential parking went up 200%. - Hike fines for parking infringement Today fines are 17/33€, there are talks to increase them to 60/135 next year. - Slow down cars overall. 90% of the city is to be limited to 30kph soon (regular city limit is 50). Many areas are limited to 20kph. - Add speed traps and red-light traps all over. - Entire districts are planned to go car-free in the next few years. Taken together, these changes really do add up and, as we already have good public transportation, there are fewer and fewer reasons to own a car in Paris. I think the good approach here is to start by removing cars in the city center, then gradually kick them out of the outer boroughs as infrastructure allows it.
- masklinn 11y ago
  Yes you're right my comment comes across as way overly negative with respect to the liveability of not driving in Paris, even though I almost never drove there (and hated every second of driving I had to do). Thank you for the expansion and details.

noobermin 11y ago

My girlfriend lives in Singapore and travels exclusively by public transport. She recently moved across the city and how she did this was by incrementally moving things. Moreover, when I visited her, I noticed she was good at being light, only packing the essentials when she goes out, which is something I try to do too, since I bike exclusively. Essentially, it comes down to changes of habit. You learn to cope with not having a huge cart to carry things around with. With the loss of convenience you get better health, less traffic, less noise pollution, etc.

3pt14159 11y ago

We've already tried various solutions to this problem and the one that seems to work best is to gradually degrade the road experience for motorists as demands on the space go up. First we take away street parking and left turns. Then we take away stopping / idling. Then we make carpool / high occupancy vehicle lanes and bike lanes. Then we convert lanes into transit lanes only. Then we completely prohibit cars / motored deliveries during rush hour. The last one is usually the hardest politically to get through because it is a major disruption to many businesses, but it is quite effective and usually leads to a great number of people switching to mass transit and bike lanes.

pjc50 11y ago

London has its "congestion charge", which is an extra charge of about $15 to drive in the core of the city. It's still pretty congested. It also has plenty of public transport options which are also congested.

technomancy 11y ago
Some cities in China, as well as Manila IIRC, only allow cars in the city on certain days based on their license plate numbers. Even, then odd, back and forth. Of course this means rich people just buy two cars, so it doesn't quite have the intended effect.