5 ms·

Fusion of maps, 3d modeling, electricity & lease rates, solar intensity, installers. Easy to use. This feels like something new and powerful. For society: I

by andyl 11y ago

Fusion of maps, 3d modeling, electricity & lease rates, solar intensity, installers. Easy to use. This feels like something new and powerful. For society: I wonder if it is safe for so much power to be concentrated in one organization. As a technical accomplishment: I'm impressed.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
> For society: I wonder if it is safe for so much power to be concentrated in one organization. In general, it's probably not. But in this particular case it's been working very well for us so far.
dkhenry 11y ago
Its not really new, and its not really powerful. From what I can see all this does is give you an estimate based on the square footage of your rooftop. There is a lot more that goes into a real estimate then how big your roof is, namely how can you arrange the panels to cover the roof. That is a neat trick and this company does that http://www.modsolar.net/ http://www.modsolar.net/ I worked with their stack for a bit and from my understanding their tool has been doing what this site does and then some extra stuff to actually get the panels installed.
- rconti 11y ago
  And sun exposure.
oaktowner 11y ago
But Google doesn't have power over electricity and lease rates or lists of installers -- they're just using publicly available data. There are other sources for maps data, and many people have 3d modeling software. So I'm not sure how this is "so much power" concentrated in one organization.
- andyl 11y ago
  To me, what makes it powerful is the ubiquity - the 'full take' ness of it all. Sure the app is solar-related data, just for a few regions. But could include whatever data Google chooses, expanded to the whole world, for whatever audience Google chooses. I've worked with aerial surveillance systems, the types used on police choppers. Put the crosshairs of the flir camera on a house and it will tell you all kinds of stuff: age/race of occupants, arrest records, warrants, tax status, etc. Amazing for LE, but a bit big-brotherly for my taste. In the wrong hands, in the wrong circumstances, data fusion has incredible potential for abuse. IMHO. :-)
  - calciphus 11y ago
    But if the data is already public, surely making it more widely available devalues it as a means of control or coercion? You can blackmail me if you know something no one else does. You can't if you know something everyone else does. Services like this fix asymmetric access to information. They're not revealing anything new.
    - andyl 11y ago
      Normal citizens do not have the ability to perform data-fusion like Google or a Government Agency. Services like Sunroof give just a tiny window into what they know about you. Hardly anything could be more asymmetric. I believe the potential for abuse exists. Everything is fine now (here in California). But when the next crisis comes, data-fusion can be a powerful tool for authoritarians to control their opponents and suppress dissent.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > Normal citizens do not have the ability to perform data-fusion like Google or a Government Agency. Services like Sunroof give just a tiny window into what they know about you. Hardly anything could be more asymmetric. If you're a normal citizen who has technical skills, yes, you can do exactly the same data extrapolation with publicly available datasources.
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wmeredith 11y ago
I had a similar thought. I'd bet an "enter your address and Google will tell you your household political orientation" could probably be pretty accurate.

by andyl 11y ago

TeMPOraL 11y ago

> For society: I wonder if it is safe for so much power to be concentrated in one organization. In general, it's probably not. But in this particular case it's been working very well for us so far.

dkhenry 11y ago

Its not really new, and its not really powerful. From what I can see all this does is give you an estimate based on the square footage of your rooftop. There is a lot more that goes into a real estimate then how big your roof is, namely how can you arrange the panels to cover the roof. That is a neat trick and this company does that http://www.modsolar.net/ http://www.modsolar.net/ I worked with their stack for a bit and from my understanding their tool has been doing what this site does and then some extra stuff to actually get the panels installed.

rconti 11y ago
And sun exposure.

oaktowner 11y ago

But Google doesn't have power over electricity and lease rates or lists of installers -- they're just using publicly available data. There are other sources for maps data, and many people have 3d modeling software. So I'm not sure how this is "so much power" concentrated in one organization.

andyl 11y ago
To me, what makes it powerful is the ubiquity - the 'full take' ness of it all. Sure the app is solar-related data, just for a few regions. But could include whatever data Google chooses, expanded to the whole world, for whatever audience Google chooses. I've worked with aerial surveillance systems, the types used on police choppers. Put the crosshairs of the flir camera on a house and it will tell you all kinds of stuff: age/race of occupants, arrest records, warrants, tax status, etc. Amazing for LE, but a bit big-brotherly for my taste. In the wrong hands, in the wrong circumstances, data fusion has incredible potential for abuse. IMHO. :-)
- calciphus 11y ago
  But if the data is already public, surely making it more widely available devalues it as a means of control or coercion? You can blackmail me if you know something no one else does. You can't if you know something everyone else does. Services like this fix asymmetric access to information. They're not revealing anything new.
  - andyl 11y ago
    Normal citizens do not have the ability to perform data-fusion like Google or a Government Agency. Services like Sunroof give just a tiny window into what they know about you. Hardly anything could be more asymmetric. I believe the potential for abuse exists. Everything is fine now (here in California). But when the next crisis comes, data-fusion can be a powerful tool for authoritarians to control their opponents and suppress dissent.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > Normal citizens do not have the ability to perform data-fusion like Google or a Government Agency. Services like Sunroof give just a tiny window into what they know about you. Hardly anything could be more asymmetric. If you're a normal citizen who has technical skills, yes, you can do exactly the same data extrapolation with publicly available datasources.

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wmeredith 11y ago

I had a similar thought. I'd bet an "enter your address and Google will tell you your household political orientation" could probably be pretty accurate.