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AFAIK only the Neo9000 offers baseband isolation from the main system. https://neo900.org/faq https://neo900.org/faq > Unlike some other smartphones do, Neo90

by ilurk 11y ago

AFAIK only the Neo9000 offers baseband isolation from the main system. https://neo900.org/faq https://neo900.org/faq > Unlike some other smartphones do, Neo900 won't share system RAM with the modem and system CPU will always have full control over the microphone signal sent to the modem. You can think of it as a USB dongle connected to the PC, with you in full control over the drivers, with a virtual LED to show any modem activity. I found no information on baseband isolation for the Blackphone. Does anyone has further information on this?

mr337 11y ago
I have been following the Neo9000 project and debating on getting a phone. They are crazy expensive since aren't produced in mass quantity, when they start shipping. We will see how it pans out.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  650-700$ for a phone with a decade old hardware which is weaker than the original RaspberryPi what for exactly? Yes it will be able to make calls but other than that it's DSP won't even be able to play modern video formats...
EthanHeilman 11y ago
Baseband isolation is a must for a secure phone. Blackphone does not offer it and blackphones can been compromised as a result[1]. >"The Blackphone does not protect you against vulnerabilities in the Android subsystem, in the application processor (SoC), or in the baseband itself." [1] Blackphone excels at protecting communication from passive adversaries, but it needs to shore up endpoint security. >The makers of Blackphone are well aware of this. “We have a bit of a problem with the press saying that the Blackphone will make you NSA-proof. If someone [at the Blackphone booth] tells you that it’ll protect you from the NSA, I’ll fire them,” Phil Zimmermann, one of the Blackphone’s creators, told Anthony. - [2] While the NEO9000 has some baseband isolation, I would still be extremely careful in assuming this isolation is complete. I haven't researched this enough to have an opinion but I would like to know exactly what privileges it has and what sandboxing is done to isolate it. [1]: http://www.itproportal.com/2014/02/26/blackphones-big-problem-the-belief-that-the-device-is-nsa-proof/#ixzz2uW5QC6WJ http://www.itproportal.com/2014/02/26/blackphones-big-proble... [2]: http://qz.com/181977/hidden-risk-in-blackphones-secure-communications/ http://qz.com/181977/hidden-risk-in-blackphones-secure-commu...
- dogma1138 11y ago
  There's very little chance that anyone can make anything which is actually NSA proof, if they want to compromise it they will it's just a matter of resources. The Neo900 is doing their BB isolation by using a 3G/4G USB dongle, by doing this they claim that they not only can disconnect the BB from the rest of the phone but also to analyse it's behavior. While the 1st part is very doable as they can use relays/electronic switching to disconnect the BB the 2nd part is well more iffy. Due to regulations BBP's tend to be extremely close devices while the Neo900 might be able to do some power usage analysis in order to ensure that when the BB is suspended it is indeed off (something that any phone vendor should be able to accomplish) I have very strong doubts about their ability to detect a compromise especially from a state agency with the capabilities of the NSA while the BBP is mounted and in active use by the user. For the most part I don't see neither of them as being a solution against government directed action especially not against the NSA, so the question here is really when it comes to effective privacy and operation security which device can be made more secure against surveillance by criminal elements, corporate agents, casual snoopers, and maybe low level state actors (Emerging nation etc.).

by ilurk 11y ago

mr337 11y ago

I have been following the Neo9000 project and debating on getting a phone. They are crazy expensive since aren't produced in mass quantity, when they start shipping. We will see how it pans out.

dogma1138 11y ago
650-700$ for a phone with a decade old hardware which is weaker than the original RaspberryPi what for exactly? Yes it will be able to make calls but other than that it's DSP won't even be able to play modern video formats...

EthanHeilman 11y ago

Baseband isolation is a must for a secure phone. Blackphone does not offer it and blackphones can been compromised as a result[1]. >"The Blackphone does not protect you against vulnerabilities in the Android subsystem, in the application processor (SoC), or in the baseband itself." [1] Blackphone excels at protecting communication from passive adversaries, but it needs to shore up endpoint security. >The makers of Blackphone are well aware of this. “We have a bit of a problem with the press saying that the Blackphone will make you NSA-proof. If someone [at the Blackphone booth] tells you that it’ll protect you from the NSA, I’ll fire them,” Phil Zimmermann, one of the Blackphone’s creators, told Anthony. - [2] While the NEO9000 has some baseband isolation, I would still be extremely careful in assuming this isolation is complete. I haven't researched this enough to have an opinion but I would like to know exactly what privileges it has and what sandboxing is done to isolate it. [1]: http://www.itproportal.com/2014/02/26/blackphones-big-problem-the-belief-that-the-device-is-nsa-proof/#ixzz2uW5QC6WJ http://www.itproportal.com/2014/02/26/blackphones-big-proble... [2]: http://qz.com/181977/hidden-risk-in-blackphones-secure-communications/ http://qz.com/181977/hidden-risk-in-blackphones-secure-commu...

dogma1138 11y ago
There's very little chance that anyone can make anything which is actually NSA proof, if they want to compromise it they will it's just a matter of resources. The Neo900 is doing their BB isolation by using a 3G/4G USB dongle, by doing this they claim that they not only can disconnect the BB from the rest of the phone but also to analyse it's behavior. While the 1st part is very doable as they can use relays/electronic switching to disconnect the BB the 2nd part is well more iffy. Due to regulations BBP's tend to be extremely close devices while the Neo900 might be able to do some power usage analysis in order to ensure that when the BB is suspended it is indeed off (something that any phone vendor should be able to accomplish) I have very strong doubts about their ability to detect a compromise especially from a state agency with the capabilities of the NSA while the BBP is mounted and in active use by the user. For the most part I don't see neither of them as being a solution against government directed action especially not against the NSA, so the question here is really when it comes to effective privacy and operation security which device can be made more secure against surveillance by criminal elements, corporate agents, casual snoopers, and maybe low level state actors (Emerging nation etc.).