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This year at Black Hat Vegas there were a few people gliding around on similar devices in the hallways. It struck me that here is yet another device to help ge

This year at Black Hat Vegas there were a few people gliding around on similar devices in the hallways. It struck me that here is yet another device to help geeks live a sedentary lifestyle.

Someone1234 11y ago
Holy heck, what a negative outlook. It could be, I don't know, people find them fun and like to have fun? I know, crazy, but just consider it.
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  Being fun and a net negative for health are not mutually exclusive. I ride an e-bike. After I got it, my physical shape deteriorated rapidly as my primary means of exercise was reduced. Now I make a conscious effort to turn off the assist once in a while to get some exercise.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    > Being fun and a net negative for health are not mutually exclusive. Indeed. But you're making a point that pivots from the point the OP made and I replied to. The OP suggested that because they witnessed people utilising these devices, that these devices inherently exist to support our (as a group) sedentary lifestyle. That argument is weak simply because it ignores any other value these devices could provide to a user (like enjoyment, faster movement, etc). It is essentially taking a new concept and looking at it from the most negative viewpoint imaginable, while ignoring the fact that these electronic alternatives offer mountains of improvements to the user and society at large. Plus if we want to talk about sedentary, what is more sedentary than sitting in a car or on public transport? Certainly not a device where you have to shift your weight around to maneuver it.
    - patcheudor 11y ago
      My original point was that I witnessed these being used at a conference, to get around a conference. What is the alternative? Walking. All things being equal my point stands. These devices, when used in situations like I described are nothing more than stand-up mobility scooters. There can never be a net positive health benefit over the alternative which is walking. In terms of transportation to and from work, I believe there's a statistic somewhere that states the average bus or train commuter will walk at least five miles a day in order to facilitate that commute. There's no way that even a 20 mile commute on one of these would require the energy of five miles of walking. Further, if you look at the manufacturers own marketing, these are the "size of a briefcase" for a reason with the intent clearly targeted at reducing that five miles of walking by being able to take it with you on the train.
  - jchrisa 11y ago
    I ride an ebike and I take more longer faster trips than I used to, so I'm getting more exercise...
    - throwaway7767 11y ago
      > I ride an ebike and I take more longer faster trips than I used to, so I'm getting more exercise... I guess it depends on how you ride it and what kind of exercise. For me, I found that I was doing more endurance training, as I would cycle 100+km, which I never did before I got the motor. However, I lost a lot of strength training as I no longer really had to fight with the numerous steep hills around here, and I found that I could no longer bike them after a month on the motor. So now I occasionally turn off the motor before a really nasty hill just to force myself to really push it once in a while.
masklinn 11y ago
> It struck me that here is yet another device to help geeks live a sedentary lifestyle. How does a device whose whole purpose is to move around "help live a sedentary lifestyle"?
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  > How does a device whose whole purpose is to move around "help live a sedentary lifestyle"? sedentary, adj. 1. characterized by or requiring a sitting posture: a sedentary occupation. 2. accustomed to sit or rest a great deal or to take little exercise. So, sedentary refers to not getting enough exercise. If you replace walking with one of these, your lifestylie is more sedentary than it was.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    > If you replace walking with one of these, your lifestylie is more sedentary than it was. And if you replace driving or sitting on a bus with one of these then you're less sedentary/getting more exercise. See the glass can be half full too.
    - throwaway7767 11y ago
      > And if you replace driving or sitting on a bus with one of these then you're less sedentary/getting more exercise. No, in both cases you are being moved by an external power source, so they're equally sedentary.
Brakenshire 11y ago
Yeah. It's also a bit of worry, because it potentially undermines the combined benefits which you get from pedestrian/cycle/bus friendly transportation policy, of efficient use of city space, and improved health for individuals. When efficiency goes up against health, we all know which comes out on top.

This year at Black Hat Vegas there were a few people gliding around on similar devices in the hallways. It struck me that here is yet another device to help geeks live a sedentary lifestyle.

Someone1234 11y ago

Holy heck, what a negative outlook. It could be, I don't know, people find them fun and like to have fun? I know, crazy, but just consider it.

throwaway7767 11y ago
Being fun and a net negative for health are not mutually exclusive. I ride an e-bike. After I got it, my physical shape deteriorated rapidly as my primary means of exercise was reduced. Now I make a conscious effort to turn off the assist once in a while to get some exercise.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  > Being fun and a net negative for health are not mutually exclusive. Indeed. But you're making a point that pivots from the point the OP made and I replied to. The OP suggested that because they witnessed people utilising these devices, that these devices inherently exist to support our (as a group) sedentary lifestyle. That argument is weak simply because it ignores any other value these devices could provide to a user (like enjoyment, faster movement, etc). It is essentially taking a new concept and looking at it from the most negative viewpoint imaginable, while ignoring the fact that these electronic alternatives offer mountains of improvements to the user and society at large. Plus if we want to talk about sedentary, what is more sedentary than sitting in a car or on public transport? Certainly not a device where you have to shift your weight around to maneuver it.
  - patcheudor 11y ago
    My original point was that I witnessed these being used at a conference, to get around a conference. What is the alternative? Walking. All things being equal my point stands. These devices, when used in situations like I described are nothing more than stand-up mobility scooters. There can never be a net positive health benefit over the alternative which is walking. In terms of transportation to and from work, I believe there's a statistic somewhere that states the average bus or train commuter will walk at least five miles a day in order to facilitate that commute. There's no way that even a 20 mile commute on one of these would require the energy of five miles of walking. Further, if you look at the manufacturers own marketing, these are the "size of a briefcase" for a reason with the intent clearly targeted at reducing that five miles of walking by being able to take it with you on the train.
- jchrisa 11y ago
  I ride an ebike and I take more longer faster trips than I used to, so I'm getting more exercise...
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
    > I ride an ebike and I take more longer faster trips than I used to, so I'm getting more exercise... I guess it depends on how you ride it and what kind of exercise. For me, I found that I was doing more endurance training, as I would cycle 100+km, which I never did before I got the motor. However, I lost a lot of strength training as I no longer really had to fight with the numerous steep hills around here, and I found that I could no longer bike them after a month on the motor. So now I occasionally turn off the motor before a really nasty hill just to force myself to really push it once in a while.

masklinn 11y ago

> It struck me that here is yet another device to help geeks live a sedentary lifestyle. How does a device whose whole purpose is to move around "help live a sedentary lifestyle"?

throwaway7767 11y ago
> How does a device whose whole purpose is to move around "help live a sedentary lifestyle"? sedentary, adj. 1. characterized by or requiring a sitting posture: a sedentary occupation. 2. accustomed to sit or rest a great deal or to take little exercise. So, sedentary refers to not getting enough exercise. If you replace walking with one of these, your lifestylie is more sedentary than it was.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  > If you replace walking with one of these, your lifestylie is more sedentary than it was. And if you replace driving or sitting on a bus with one of these then you're less sedentary/getting more exercise. See the glass can be half full too.
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
    > And if you replace driving or sitting on a bus with one of these then you're less sedentary/getting more exercise. No, in both cases you are being moved by an external power source, so they're equally sedentary.

Brakenshire 11y ago

Yeah. It's also a bit of worry, because it potentially undermines the combined benefits which you get from pedestrian/cycle/bus friendly transportation policy, of efficient use of city space, and improved health for individuals. When efficiency goes up against health, we all know which comes out on top.