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There's a bit of a divide that no one seems to be touching on - most of the issues talked about in the NYT article seem to be from non technical folks, while en

by sudhirj 11y ago

There's a bit of a divide that no one seems to be touching on - most of the issues talked about in the NYT article seem to be from non technical folks, while engineering tends to be a little happier for precisely the reasons Bezos mentions. Amazon and most other companies have separate staff, culture and levels of morale for engineering and non engineering divisions. Can't really compare them directly.

littletimmy 11y ago
It is only happier because demand/supply seem to be working out for engineers at the moment. High competition to hire engineers = you have to be nice to them. Bezos would treat engineers much worse if he could.
srj 11y ago
Another anecdote: when I lived in Seattle I knew several amazon engineers and most seemed overworked and miserable. The reputation is that they hire college grads and work them until they burn out. My understanding is that the attrition rate is high within engineering so that may provide some data to back up this narrative.
exelius 11y ago
This is exactly it. I know numerous people who work in marketing or operations at Amazon, and their experiences more closely mirror the NYT article. Much of the pressure is self-imposed: Amazon hires type-A overachievers, then stack-ranks them. The pressure to succeed is immense, and as happens with any forced stack rank system, people try to tear each other down. Amazon hires legions of MBA graduates every year, and most of them will have left by the time the next class comes in. Jeff Bezos seems to have modeled Amazon in the style of his former employer, McKinsey & Co., and it shows. The expectations at Amazon are similar to the expectations at McKinsey -- except that being fired from McKinsey after 2 years is almost considered a rite of passage in the executive world. Until Amazon develops a similar reputation (and becomes a lot pickier about who it hires) they will continue to have this perception problem. It's certainly effective, but Amazon is not a nice place to work.

by sudhirj 11y ago

littletimmy 11y ago

It is only happier because demand/supply seem to be working out for engineers at the moment. High competition to hire engineers = you have to be nice to them. Bezos would treat engineers much worse if he could.

srj 11y ago

Another anecdote: when I lived in Seattle I knew several amazon engineers and most seemed overworked and miserable. The reputation is that they hire college grads and work them until they burn out. My understanding is that the attrition rate is high within engineering so that may provide some data to back up this narrative.

exelius 11y ago

This is exactly it. I know numerous people who work in marketing or operations at Amazon, and their experiences more closely mirror the NYT article. Much of the pressure is self-imposed: Amazon hires type-A overachievers, then stack-ranks them. The pressure to succeed is immense, and as happens with any forced stack rank system, people try to tear each other down. Amazon hires legions of MBA graduates every year, and most of them will have left by the time the next class comes in. Jeff Bezos seems to have modeled Amazon in the style of his former employer, McKinsey & Co., and it shows. The expectations at Amazon are similar to the expectations at McKinsey -- except that being fired from McKinsey after 2 years is almost considered a rite of passage in the executive world. Until Amazon develops a similar reputation (and becomes a lot pickier about who it hires) they will continue to have this perception problem. It's certainly effective, but Amazon is not a nice place to work.