2 ms·

Secret in negotiation is like source control in software development. It is universally recognized best practice. So that's not really an indication of anythin

by gutnor 11y ago

Secret in negotiation is like source control in software development. It is universally recognized best practice. So that's not really an indication of anything. You cannot practically publicly negotiate as that would require either showing your hand to the other countries, or worse would prevent you to make any concession under public/party pressure. Now, of course you know this agreement will be bad. But it is not because they negotiate in secret. That is because they negotiate at all and you know that politicians do not share our(0) views on IP and as such don't mind trading short term money, for what we see is a long term degradation of our liberties. (0) By "ours", I mean definitively ours on HN. Considering past support, I guess it is indicative that "ours" includes a large part of the public too. Although it does not seem something important enough to be an election topic in most of the Western World.

lumberjack 11y ago
>It is universally recognized best practice. It is universally recognized best practice for politicians to decide which industries/businesses in their respective countries should go under and lose out on the deal and which industries in both respective countries should be the winners with as little opposition from the losers as possible. I'm sure that there are many people all over the political spectrum that think that politicians are abusing their power by essentially deciding without anyone's input, (except for those with the deepest pockets) who should be sacrificed for the economy's sake and who should stand to gain pretty much everything.
- zymhan 11y ago
  > politicians are abusing their power by essentially deciding without anyone's input Well the deal isn't negotiated by elected officials, mostly it's negotiated by experts/bureaucrats, and congress will just vote the whole thing up or down. If you oppose the TPP, circulate petitions and call on your congresspeople to oppose it. The average Joe doesn't care about a lot of policy debates, but the economic effects of free trade agreements are apparent to most.
- tbrownaw 11y ago
  Adversarial negotiations require not telling your negotiation opponent too much about your goals and priorities. This unfortunately doesn't interact well with country-internal public discussion.
mcv 11y ago
The secrecy is not from each other, it's from us, the people they're supposed to be representing. I get that some negotiations are better when there aren't TV cameras hovering over your shoulder, but it is still important that negotiators know what the position is that they're supposed to negotiate for. This entire treaty has never been discussed by the various parliaments, because the negotiators aren't doing this for the parliaments and the voters, they're doing it for the corporations. And they do have access to these negotiations. That simple fact: that companies have access and we don't, should be enough to tell anyone that these negotiations have no legitimacy whatsoever.
papaf 11y ago
Secret in negotiation is like source control in software development. It is universally recognized best practice. Its not secret: http://corporateeurope.org/international-trade/2015/07/ttip-corporate-lobbying-paradise http://corporateeurope.org/international-trade/2015/07/ttip-...

by gutnor 11y ago

lumberjack 11y ago

>It is universally recognized best practice. It is universally recognized best practice for politicians to decide which industries/businesses in their respective countries should go under and lose out on the deal and which industries in both respective countries should be the winners with as little opposition from the losers as possible. I'm sure that there are many people all over the political spectrum that think that politicians are abusing their power by essentially deciding without anyone's input, (except for those with the deepest pockets) who should be sacrificed for the economy's sake and who should stand to gain pretty much everything.

zymhan 11y ago
> politicians are abusing their power by essentially deciding without anyone's input Well the deal isn't negotiated by elected officials, mostly it's negotiated by experts/bureaucrats, and congress will just vote the whole thing up or down. If you oppose the TPP, circulate petitions and call on your congresspeople to oppose it. The average Joe doesn't care about a lot of policy debates, but the economic effects of free trade agreements are apparent to most.
tbrownaw 11y ago
Adversarial negotiations require not telling your negotiation opponent too much about your goals and priorities. This unfortunately doesn't interact well with country-internal public discussion.

mcv 11y ago

The secrecy is not from each other, it's from us, the people they're supposed to be representing. I get that some negotiations are better when there aren't TV cameras hovering over your shoulder, but it is still important that negotiators know what the position is that they're supposed to negotiate for. This entire treaty has never been discussed by the various parliaments, because the negotiators aren't doing this for the parliaments and the voters, they're doing it for the corporations. And they do have access to these negotiations. That simple fact: that companies have access and we don't, should be enough to tell anyone that these negotiations have no legitimacy whatsoever.

papaf 11y ago

Secret in negotiation is like source control in software development. It is universally recognized best practice. Its not secret: http://corporateeurope.org/international-trade/2015/07/ttip-corporate-lobbying-paradise http://corporateeurope.org/international-trade/2015/07/ttip-...