4 ms·

Assembly 2015 demo party winning entry

94 points by zaf 11y ago

jzzskijj 11y ago
Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10050086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10050086
- pavlov 11y ago
  Posting dupes is generally considered ok on HN if the link is relevant but the previous post didn't get noticed. (Sometimes the mods will even email you asking to repost a link.) In this case, the interest in the 1k intro winner makes it likely that people might want to see the demo compo winner too, so IMO the repost is warranted.
- jcr 11y ago
  No, not really. The submission you linked to never got any attention. A small number of reposts are allowed if a story hasn't gotten significant attention in the last year. See here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
misnome 11y ago
Very impressive. I don't fully understand the Demo party competitions - what constraints/limitations are there for this category? I assume it has to run real-time (i.e. not just a prerecorded video) but can people otherwise e.g. turn up with whatever they have made over time?
- Jare 11y ago
  It is usually expected that all the work included in the demo (code, visual art and music) is originally created by the demo authors (or donated by friends / collaborators). Most of the demo is also expected to be original material, but it is ok to reuse some material from demo to demo (audio samples, textures, models, animations, shaders) as long as it is used in a unique way. Demos and intros have to run in real time on the target machine without downloading new material on the fly. There used to be fairly generous size limits for the "demo" category, whereas the "intro" categories vary among 64kb, 40kb, 4kb, 1kb and even 256 bytes. They are meant to run autonomously, without needing user interaction. Demo competitions usually include other categories such as standalone music, art of various styles (pixel, 2d, 3d, procedural) and "wild" demos which are the exception in that they are pre-recorded videos. As with any form of art, there are always people that ignore or challenge some of these rules and assumptions in one way or another, and a few do so in memorable ways, but that's another discussion.
  - bane 11y ago
    I'll add that there's quite a bit of controversy over the 2nd place demo this year, "DEMO2" by ekspert. It centers around the use of Unreal Engine 4 as the engine the demo was coded in (and a few other assets like animations "borrowed" from elsewhere). This is all normally very frowned upon in competition. It's brought up a bit of an existential question in the scene however, it's not uncommon for teams to use their own engine, or engines coded by other teams, and assets of various sorts are frequently borrowed (but heavily remixed) and used in demos (famously photos of models are often turned into digital paintings used as filler scenes, but it extends to samples and other material). So DEMO2 exists purely on its artistic merits, design and style without a great deal of technical work having been done by the team. So is it "ok" by the unwritten scene rules or does it challenge the scene to focus less on the technical merits of a piece and only on the artistic bits? http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66096 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66096
    - Jare 11y ago
      Everyone is going to give different weights to the various rules and criteria for judging demos. In a community that strives for pushing boundaries, these existential debates are a staple. It was assembly vs C/C++, it was pixel art vs Photoshop, mouse vs Wacoms, chips vs raw CPU, MODs vs MP3, soft vs hardware rendering, party version vs polished release, handcoded vs demo engines, secrecy vs opensourcing, compatible vs "runs-on-my-machine", design vs tech, closed groups vs collaborations, fully self-contained vs using system assets like fonts... That's healthy. I personally value both pacing and merit. I love demos where I ask myself "how did they do that!?", and I love demos where I forget to ask that question while I'm watching them. This one, I found rather uninspired, and obviously very weak in the merit department. It clearly does not deserve a 2nd place; there's just too little of value that the authors brought to the table. In fact, their biggest contribution may be to open the door for other sceners to use UE4 for great things.
      - bane 11y ago
        My knee-jerk reaction when I found out about the engine was to be upset, but when I thought about it, it's not really any different than all the groups do at this level...it's just that the engine is well known. I'm more interested in the scene's artistic growth these days anyways...art in real-time, hyper constraints, etc.
- ctdonath 11y ago
  From source site: "Demos are programs that generate multimedia presentations in real time while the demo is running. ... In Demo competition the only realistic limitation for the demo was the speed of a high-end 2015 PC computer."
Jare 11y ago
A pretty recent interview with Navis, the programmer of this demo (and many other gems of the demoscene): http://6octaves.blogspot.com.es/2015/04/interview-navis-asd.html http://6octaves.blogspot.com.es/2015/04/interview-navis-asd....
- jzzskijj 11y ago
  This was the first time I read Navis' comments about Moroder ripoff case. I wish ASD got well compensated. It is interesting to read, that Navis (or ASD) won't be available for third parties (as in music videos.) And he has no current interest work without aMUSIC. aMUSIC seems to strongly divide opinions in demo scene (especially because of his use of electric guitar), but I enjoyed the audio in Monolith a lot.
Audiophilip 11y ago
Here's a link to a 60fps video capture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGm33hsXP9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGm33hsXP9w However, if you have a decent GPU, I think it's worth running the original executable (no video compression artifacts, etc): http://www.asd.gr/~navis/ASD-Monolith.zip http://www.asd.gr/~navis/ASD-Monolith.zip
- frou_dh 11y ago
  Never mind running it, you'll need a decent GPU just to decode the 1080p60 capture in real time. My poor 9600M GT isn't up to it.
KuhlMensch 11y ago
I'd be curious to see the tooling pipeline for the animations, camera and edits (and I'd be absolutely amazed if there was none).
- z303 11y ago
  You could have a look at .werkkzeug [1] and this talk [2] by Digi/Alcatraz [1] http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12511 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12511 [2] http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/22588846914/digialcatraz-talks-about-exporting-3d-scenes-from http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/22588846914/digialcatraz...
Zolomon 11y ago
Would be nice to see the source code for this.
- Munksgaard 11y ago
  The pouet page has a download link that includes some of the source code: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66065 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66065 It's just above the youtube link on the right.
- Intermernet 11y ago
  Or even just the size of the source code!

94 points by zaf 11y ago

jzzskijj 11y ago

Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10050086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10050086

pavlov 11y ago
Posting dupes is generally considered ok on HN if the link is relevant but the previous post didn't get noticed. (Sometimes the mods will even email you asking to repost a link.) In this case, the interest in the 1k intro winner makes it likely that people might want to see the demo compo winner too, so IMO the repost is warranted.
jcr 11y ago
No, not really. The submission you linked to never got any attention. A small number of reposts are allowed if a story hasn't gotten significant attention in the last year. See here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

misnome 11y ago

Very impressive. I don't fully understand the Demo party competitions - what constraints/limitations are there for this category? I assume it has to run real-time (i.e. not just a prerecorded video) but can people otherwise e.g. turn up with whatever they have made over time?

Jare 11y ago
It is usually expected that all the work included in the demo (code, visual art and music) is originally created by the demo authors (or donated by friends / collaborators). Most of the demo is also expected to be original material, but it is ok to reuse some material from demo to demo (audio samples, textures, models, animations, shaders) as long as it is used in a unique way. Demos and intros have to run in real time on the target machine without downloading new material on the fly. There used to be fairly generous size limits for the "demo" category, whereas the "intro" categories vary among 64kb, 40kb, 4kb, 1kb and even 256 bytes. They are meant to run autonomously, without needing user interaction. Demo competitions usually include other categories such as standalone music, art of various styles (pixel, 2d, 3d, procedural) and "wild" demos which are the exception in that they are pre-recorded videos. As with any form of art, there are always people that ignore or challenge some of these rules and assumptions in one way or another, and a few do so in memorable ways, but that's another discussion.
- bane 11y ago
  I'll add that there's quite a bit of controversy over the 2nd place demo this year, "DEMO2" by ekspert. It centers around the use of Unreal Engine 4 as the engine the demo was coded in (and a few other assets like animations "borrowed" from elsewhere). This is all normally very frowned upon in competition. It's brought up a bit of an existential question in the scene however, it's not uncommon for teams to use their own engine, or engines coded by other teams, and assets of various sorts are frequently borrowed (but heavily remixed) and used in demos (famously photos of models are often turned into digital paintings used as filler scenes, but it extends to samples and other material). So DEMO2 exists purely on its artistic merits, design and style without a great deal of technical work having been done by the team. So is it "ok" by the unwritten scene rules or does it challenge the scene to focus less on the technical merits of a piece and only on the artistic bits? http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66096 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66096
  - Jare 11y ago
    Everyone is going to give different weights to the various rules and criteria for judging demos. In a community that strives for pushing boundaries, these existential debates are a staple. It was assembly vs C/C++, it was pixel art vs Photoshop, mouse vs Wacoms, chips vs raw CPU, MODs vs MP3, soft vs hardware rendering, party version vs polished release, handcoded vs demo engines, secrecy vs opensourcing, compatible vs "runs-on-my-machine", design vs tech, closed groups vs collaborations, fully self-contained vs using system assets like fonts... That's healthy. I personally value both pacing and merit. I love demos where I ask myself "how did they do that!?", and I love demos where I forget to ask that question while I'm watching them. This one, I found rather uninspired, and obviously very weak in the merit department. It clearly does not deserve a 2nd place; there's just too little of value that the authors brought to the table. In fact, their biggest contribution may be to open the door for other sceners to use UE4 for great things.
    - bane 11y ago
      My knee-jerk reaction when I found out about the engine was to be upset, but when I thought about it, it's not really any different than all the groups do at this level...it's just that the engine is well known. I'm more interested in the scene's artistic growth these days anyways...art in real-time, hyper constraints, etc.
ctdonath 11y ago
From source site: "Demos are programs that generate multimedia presentations in real time while the demo is running. ... In Demo competition the only realistic limitation for the demo was the speed of a high-end 2015 PC computer."

Jare 11y ago

A pretty recent interview with Navis, the programmer of this demo (and many other gems of the demoscene): http://6octaves.blogspot.com.es/2015/04/interview-navis-asd.html http://6octaves.blogspot.com.es/2015/04/interview-navis-asd....

jzzskijj 11y ago
This was the first time I read Navis' comments about Moroder ripoff case. I wish ASD got well compensated. It is interesting to read, that Navis (or ASD) won't be available for third parties (as in music videos.) And he has no current interest work without aMUSIC. aMUSIC seems to strongly divide opinions in demo scene (especially because of his use of electric guitar), but I enjoyed the audio in Monolith a lot.

Audiophilip 11y ago

Here's a link to a 60fps video capture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGm33hsXP9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGm33hsXP9w However, if you have a decent GPU, I think it's worth running the original executable (no video compression artifacts, etc): http://www.asd.gr/~navis/ASD-Monolith.zip http://www.asd.gr/~navis/ASD-Monolith.zip

frou_dh 11y ago
Never mind running it, you'll need a decent GPU just to decode the 1080p60 capture in real time. My poor 9600M GT isn't up to it.

KuhlMensch 11y ago

I'd be curious to see the tooling pipeline for the animations, camera and edits (and I'd be absolutely amazed if there was none).

z303 11y ago
You could have a look at .werkkzeug [1] and this talk [2] by Digi/Alcatraz [1] http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12511 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=12511 [2] http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/22588846914/digialcatraz-talks-about-exporting-3d-scenes-from http://thedemoscene.tumblr.com/post/22588846914/digialcatraz...

Zolomon 11y ago

Would be nice to see the source code for this.

Munksgaard 11y ago
The pouet page has a download link that includes some of the source code: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66065 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=66065 It's just above the youtube link on the right.
Intermernet 11y ago
Or even just the size of the source code!