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PGP/GPG are tools we have because the technical solution trumped attempts at force and law. Governments can do nothing to stop it. They have no control over mat

PGP/GPG are tools we have because the technical solution trumped attempts at force and law. Governments can do nothing to stop it. They have no control over mathematical realities. Force and law have no bearing on mathematics. A technical solution will always trump a violent or political solution.

mirimir 11y ago
Government force and law have no bearing on plant biochemistry, either. But they can punish those in possession of illegal plants. They can even punish those with illegal substances in their bodies. Just sayin' ;)
- drdaeman 11y ago
  They'll have to outlaw crypto first. And it's hard to put this genie back to the bottle, given that it's somewhat out already. To outlaw but not make virtually anyone guilty (because some stuff like TLS is extremely common) is a hard task alone, and any attempts at this would be surely fiercely countered.
  - mtgx 11y ago
    Some politicians and government officials are already saying companies like Apple and Google are aiding terrorists. They don't necessarily have to outlaw it. They can just put such pressure on the providers of the biggest services, in order for them to use weaker encryption.
enraged_camel 11y ago
Governments can use force to make you reveal your private keys. It doesn't have to be legal. NSA's mass surveillance isn't legal but they are still doing it, which proves that the government is above the law.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  If it is 'impossible' for your key to be revealed...technical trumps force/law/politics once again.
  - enraged_camel 11y ago
    How would it be impossible for your key to be revealed? Here's what I'm trying to say: there's absolutely nothing that prevents the government from forcing you to grant them access to your private (i.e. encrypted) content. If they decide that you're a threat to national security, they can do whatever they please to gain access to anything you have secured. Before you say "but it's technologically impossible!" let me remind you that in any system, humans are the weakest link. How long do you think you can last under torture? The CIA has hundreds of "secret sites" overseas. What makes you think that the Department of Homeland Security doesn't have any equivalents here in the US, that they can imprison you in and torture you until you reveal everything you know? It's really naive to think that technology can solve all problems. Think outside the box (or the computer, in this case) and really try to grasp what the most powerful nation in the history of the world is capable of. They can force the private jets of foreign officials to land in allied airports and search them thoroughly. If you think your fileserver is safe simply because you have its contents encrypted, you have a lot to learn.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Well, if you used a one time pad and burned the pad, it's essentially impossible to reveal the key. It does not matter how much some one chooses to torture you.

mirimir 11y ago

Government force and law have no bearing on plant biochemistry, either. But they can punish those in possession of illegal plants. They can even punish those with illegal substances in their bodies. Just sayin' ;)

drdaeman 11y ago
They'll have to outlaw crypto first. And it's hard to put this genie back to the bottle, given that it's somewhat out already. To outlaw but not make virtually anyone guilty (because some stuff like TLS is extremely common) is a hard task alone, and any attempts at this would be surely fiercely countered.
- mtgx 11y ago
  Some politicians and government officials are already saying companies like Apple and Google are aiding terrorists. They don't necessarily have to outlaw it. They can just put such pressure on the providers of the biggest services, in order for them to use weaker encryption.

enraged_camel 11y ago

Governments can use force to make you reveal your private keys. It doesn't have to be legal. NSA's mass surveillance isn't legal but they are still doing it, which proves that the government is above the law.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
If it is 'impossible' for your key to be revealed...technical trumps force/law/politics once again.
- enraged_camel 11y ago
  How would it be impossible for your key to be revealed? Here's what I'm trying to say: there's absolutely nothing that prevents the government from forcing you to grant them access to your private (i.e. encrypted) content. If they decide that you're a threat to national security, they can do whatever they please to gain access to anything you have secured. Before you say "but it's technologically impossible!" let me remind you that in any system, humans are the weakest link. How long do you think you can last under torture? The CIA has hundreds of "secret sites" overseas. What makes you think that the Department of Homeland Security doesn't have any equivalents here in the US, that they can imprison you in and torture you until you reveal everything you know? It's really naive to think that technology can solve all problems. Think outside the box (or the computer, in this case) and really try to grasp what the most powerful nation in the history of the world is capable of. They can force the private jets of foreign officials to land in allied airports and search them thoroughly. If you think your fileserver is safe simply because you have its contents encrypted, you have a lot to learn.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Well, if you used a one time pad and burned the pad, it's essentially impossible to reveal the key. It does not matter how much some one chooses to torture you.