5 ms·

"[america ranking low in tolerance] is a mistake. Some religious countries are indeed intolerant, but America is not one of them" this seems to be a good ecno

by gcb 17y ago

"[america ranking low in tolerance] is a mistake. Some religious countries are indeed intolerant, but America is not one of them" this seems to be a good ecnomist article, but its filled with propagada. america ranks below for tolerance not because of religious reasons, but because its a police state where the people have no means of contesting acts and policies of some obscure gov branchs. right now im on the verge of moving to there, but im scared as shit of the random people dispearing for ties with terrorism. Fair its still a small number, and they even might be terrorists, and more importantly its no one you know. But that there are cases, that are.

jacobolus 17y ago
> [this article is] filled with propagada. [sic] [... America is] a police state. Give me a break. People in America have all kinds of “means of contesting acts and policies.” There are problems with the justice system, as anywhere, but the courts and the political system are more accessible in America than anywhere I know.
- gcb 17y ago
  You know very few places. but i agree that i got the most difficult, and extreme, example of the dozen i could have used.
  - alanthonyc 17y ago
    And where are you from? As far as I know, America invented the modern incarnation of a country with "means of contesting acts and policies of...govt." The fact that America's faults are bandied about for all the world to discuss, dispute and analyze just goes to show how good of a government it is. It's like an open source version of government.
    - btilly 17y ago
      I was born in the USA and currently work here. I am fully aware of what the Constitution says and how it has been subverted. For example consider the 4th amendment protecting us from unreasonable search and seizure. As http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty/are-you-living-constitution-free-zone http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty... points out, 2/3 of the country lives within areas where the border patrol both can and sometimes does periodically set up spots where they randomly stop and search whoever they want. In pursuit of the "war on drugs" courts have come to accept that if your belongings are directly sued that you personally have no standing to contest the lawsuit, and your protections against unreasonable seizure is null and void. Telecom companies at the request of the Bush government made virtually everything tappable with no oversight. This activity has continued, and telecom companies have by special act of Congress (the current President voted ye on this) been given immunity for their violation of our privacy. We are not an extreme police state. But we are well on our way. As a random example, in the last several years at every job I have worked at I was unable to enter or leave my place of employment without a security badge. Just 30 years ago this kind of widespread use of pervasive security systems was considered unthinkable in this country, and people were proud of it.
      - gcb 17y ago
        Exactly. And You talk about the future but you also forget that in the recent california past decent people had to put "armed response" signs on their backyards.
  - jacobolus 17y ago
    A few relatively populous example countries with less accessible courts or political systems than the US: Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Japan, China, India, Indonesia, Iran, Egypt, Nigeria, Ghana, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, etc. etc. Can you give me an example of some place with a more accessible system? (And if you can, maybe you can think of a reason or two why that might be so?)
    - gcb 17y ago
      Most the countries you've listed you can't be even searched without a warranty. In the US you can be imprisioned w/out one or notification to your family. http://politics.slashdot.org/story/10/01/14/2226219/Obama-Appointee-Sunstein-Favors-Infiltrating-Online-Groups http://politics.slashdot.org/story/10/01/14/2226219/Obama-Ap...
- Locke1689 17y ago
  Just as a side note: if you want a small taste of the difference in justice systems, watching Law and Order UK vs Law and Order USA. For those who take me up on this, yes, that is Jamie Bamber (Apollo from BSG) and yes he is British (with an American father) with an amazing American accent. One thing I was surprised about was the ability of UK officer to question a child (about 13) without anyone else present. This is definitely illegal in the US. Easily the most surprising was the turn of a familiar phrase, "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say can and will be used against you." In the UK: "You have the right to remain silent. However, if you do remain silent, your silence can be used against you in court." Edit: Also, the dress of the Crown Prosecution looks absolutely ridiculous and it's hilarious. Apologies to friends across the pond.
philwelch 17y ago
US antiterrorism policy is such that you can disappear for being a suspected terrorist no matter where you are in the world. You're probably safer living in America than outside of America--inside of America, we have some abnormally strong civil liberties.
- gcb 17y ago
  Remember that the LA riots where in the 90s? oh sorry, you're not black to remember that. As you're probably not muslin to remember the missing persons in 2001. now, which one will be the next to be forgotten?
anamax 17y ago
> its a police state where the people have no means of contesting acts and policies of some obscure gov branchs. > right now im on the verge of moving to there, but im scared as shit of the random people dispearing for ties with terrorism You almost got it right. You will be plagued by unaccountable bureaucrats who have the full power of the state behind them, but few of them are under the "fight terrorism" excuse.

by gcb 17y ago

jacobolus 17y ago

> [this article is] filled with propagada. [sic] [... America is] a police state. Give me a break. People in America have all kinds of “means of contesting acts and policies.” There are problems with the justice system, as anywhere, but the courts and the political system are more accessible in America than anywhere I know.

gcb 17y ago
You know very few places. but i agree that i got the most difficult, and extreme, example of the dozen i could have used.
- alanthonyc 17y ago
  And where are you from? As far as I know, America invented the modern incarnation of a country with "means of contesting acts and policies of...govt." The fact that America's faults are bandied about for all the world to discuss, dispute and analyze just goes to show how good of a government it is. It's like an open source version of government.
  - btilly 17y ago
    I was born in the USA and currently work here. I am fully aware of what the Constitution says and how it has been subverted. For example consider the 4th amendment protecting us from unreasonable search and seizure. As http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty/are-you-living-constitution-free-zone http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty... points out, 2/3 of the country lives within areas where the border patrol both can and sometimes does periodically set up spots where they randomly stop and search whoever they want. In pursuit of the "war on drugs" courts have come to accept that if your belongings are directly sued that you personally have no standing to contest the lawsuit, and your protections against unreasonable seizure is null and void. Telecom companies at the request of the Bush government made virtually everything tappable with no oversight. This activity has continued, and telecom companies have by special act of Congress (the current President voted ye on this) been given immunity for their violation of our privacy. We are not an extreme police state. But we are well on our way. As a random example, in the last several years at every job I have worked at I was unable to enter or leave my place of employment without a security badge. Just 30 years ago this kind of widespread use of pervasive security systems was considered unthinkable in this country, and people were proud of it.
    - gcb 17y ago
      Exactly. And You talk about the future but you also forget that in the recent california past decent people had to put "armed response" signs on their backyards.
- jacobolus 17y ago
  A few relatively populous example countries with less accessible courts or political systems than the US: Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Japan, China, India, Indonesia, Iran, Egypt, Nigeria, Ghana, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, etc. etc. Can you give me an example of some place with a more accessible system? (And if you can, maybe you can think of a reason or two why that might be so?)
  - gcb 17y ago
    Most the countries you've listed you can't be even searched without a warranty. In the US you can be imprisioned w/out one or notification to your family. http://politics.slashdot.org/story/10/01/14/2226219/Obama-Appointee-Sunstein-Favors-Infiltrating-Online-Groups http://politics.slashdot.org/story/10/01/14/2226219/Obama-Ap...
Locke1689 17y ago
Just as a side note: if you want a small taste of the difference in justice systems, watching Law and Order UK vs Law and Order USA. For those who take me up on this, yes, that is Jamie Bamber (Apollo from BSG) and yes he is British (with an American father) with an amazing American accent. One thing I was surprised about was the ability of UK officer to question a child (about 13) without anyone else present. This is definitely illegal in the US. Easily the most surprising was the turn of a familiar phrase, "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say can and will be used against you." In the UK: "You have the right to remain silent. However, if you do remain silent, your silence can be used against you in court." Edit: Also, the dress of the Crown Prosecution looks absolutely ridiculous and it's hilarious. Apologies to friends across the pond.

philwelch 17y ago

US antiterrorism policy is such that you can disappear for being a suspected terrorist no matter where you are in the world. You're probably safer living in America than outside of America--inside of America, we have some abnormally strong civil liberties.

gcb 17y ago
Remember that the LA riots where in the 90s? oh sorry, you're not black to remember that. As you're probably not muslin to remember the missing persons in 2001. now, which one will be the next to be forgotten?

anamax 17y ago

> its a police state where the people have no means of contesting acts and policies of some obscure gov branchs. > right now im on the verge of moving to there, but im scared as shit of the random people dispearing for ties with terrorism You almost got it right. You will be plagued by unaccountable bureaucrats who have the full power of the state behind them, but few of them are under the "fight terrorism" excuse.