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What's the difference between a sensitive/private email being composed on a smart phone or a Windows 10 laptop or desktop? It used to be that only the smartpho

by w8rbt 11y ago

What's the difference between a sensitive/private email being composed on a smart phone or a Windows 10 laptop or desktop? It used to be that only the smartphone knew your location, what you type, who you are, who you are emailing, etc. The difference now is that desktops and laptops running Windows 10 do too. This seems to upset people, but the same people were/are OK with using smart phones. I don't get it, of course I don't use smart phones either and have no plans to use Windows 10. But when all my Android and iPhone friends complain about Windows 10, I just scratch my head and wonder these things.

bigbugbag 11y ago
It seems there are a few assumptions here which are not true: desktop computer (also laptops) know your location, what you type, who you are (sort of), who you are emailing, etc. and it has been so for a while but it used to be third party software, websites, governments, corpo or malware that would collect and use this data. Cell phones are tracking devices you can use to make a phone call, people using those devices doesn't mean they are ok with the surveillance that come with it. When your friends complain they're complaining that the surveillance is creeping its way back into an OS.
brianberns 11y ago
They are different computing environments. A desktop PC is a general-purpose standalone computer, whereas a smartphone without a network connection is of limited use. A desktop OS like Windows 10 creates a dependency on "the cloud" that many people find crippling, rather than enabling.
metric10 11y ago
? The issue isn't that Windoes knows your location when you type an email, it's that it sends all this information and much more to Microsoft. If I type an email on my iPhone it doesn't get sent to Apple (unless, of course, I'm using my iCloud email account). Additionally, Apple is very clear which what they collect and what gets sent to Apple. They go through it when you set your iOS or Mac OS X device up. It's not hidden in some "advanced setup" link.
- zimbatm 11y ago
  On OSX there are a ton on Apple services phoning home for all sorts of reasons, all the time. Try installing Little Snitch some time and be amazed. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the same on the iOS devices. Any Apple device is super noisy on the network with just mDNSResponder alone. Most of them are also for useful features, it's just that they are all talking over the wire and potentially exfiltrating user information. I don't think that people realize how much data is sent around all of the time. Here is a non-exchaustive list just to give an idea: * locationd -> gs-loc.apple.com:443 * apsd -> .push.apple.com:80,443,5223 * mapspushd -> .ls.apple.com:80 * UserEventAgent -> :80 * ntpd -> time.apple.com * ocspd -> :80,443 * ... I didn't put all services. Notice that some data is not even encrypted.
zxcvcxz 11y ago
>This seems to upset people, but the same people were/are OK with using smart phones. I don't think this is the case. People have complained about that too and personally I take a lot of precautions to protect my data. Pretty much every reddit thread on the subject has a top comment akin to "Who cares? everyone else is doing it", and your comment seems to be a more well thought out version of the same sentiment. We've known for a while the NSA is abusing our technology and working with large corporations to spy on us, but at this point there is almost no way around it except to stop using technology (and even then you can be spied on by other sophisticated equipment like drones). I don't really think this is any type of excuse or justification. Just because people have no control over the spying doesn't mean people like it or are "okay" with it. The only other option is to give up most technology and stop participating in the world, which is absurd.
miguelrochefort 11y ago
People are extremely irrational when it comes to privacy. They've been brainwashed into believing that they have some kind of right to privacy, which is absolutely insane. This kind of irrational paranoia is extremely common amongst tech people, especially on HN. I can't think of anything that could slow down progress more than fear of transparency. Yet I can't blame these people because they clearly don't know better. I regularly try to have discussions around the benefits of transparency and the unsustainable nature of privacy, but it's such a touchy subject that it inevitably gets buried.

by w8rbt 11y ago

bigbugbag 11y ago

It seems there are a few assumptions here which are not true: desktop computer (also laptops) know your location, what you type, who you are (sort of), who you are emailing, etc. and it has been so for a while but it used to be third party software, websites, governments, corpo or malware that would collect and use this data. Cell phones are tracking devices you can use to make a phone call, people using those devices doesn't mean they are ok with the surveillance that come with it. When your friends complain they're complaining that the surveillance is creeping its way back into an OS.

brianberns 11y ago

They are different computing environments. A desktop PC is a general-purpose standalone computer, whereas a smartphone without a network connection is of limited use. A desktop OS like Windows 10 creates a dependency on "the cloud" that many people find crippling, rather than enabling.

metric10 11y ago

? The issue isn't that Windoes knows your location when you type an email, it's that it sends all this information and much more to Microsoft. If I type an email on my iPhone it doesn't get sent to Apple (unless, of course, I'm using my iCloud email account). Additionally, Apple is very clear which what they collect and what gets sent to Apple. They go through it when you set your iOS or Mac OS X device up. It's not hidden in some "advanced setup" link.

zimbatm 11y ago
On OSX there are a ton on Apple services phoning home for all sorts of reasons, all the time. Try installing Little Snitch some time and be amazed. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the same on the iOS devices. Any Apple device is super noisy on the network with just mDNSResponder alone. Most of them are also for useful features, it's just that they are all talking over the wire and potentially exfiltrating user information. I don't think that people realize how much data is sent around all of the time. Here is a non-exchaustive list just to give an idea: * locationd -> gs-loc.apple.com:443 * apsd -> .push.apple.com:80,443,5223 * mapspushd -> .ls.apple.com:80 * UserEventAgent -> :80 * ntpd -> time.apple.com * ocspd -> :80,443 * ... I didn't put all services. Notice that some data is not even encrypted.

zxcvcxz 11y ago

>This seems to upset people, but the same people were/are OK with using smart phones. I don't think this is the case. People have complained about that too and personally I take a lot of precautions to protect my data. Pretty much every reddit thread on the subject has a top comment akin to "Who cares? everyone else is doing it", and your comment seems to be a more well thought out version of the same sentiment. We've known for a while the NSA is abusing our technology and working with large corporations to spy on us, but at this point there is almost no way around it except to stop using technology (and even then you can be spied on by other sophisticated equipment like drones). I don't really think this is any type of excuse or justification. Just because people have no control over the spying doesn't mean people like it or are "okay" with it. The only other option is to give up most technology and stop participating in the world, which is absurd.

miguelrochefort 11y ago

People are extremely irrational when it comes to privacy. They've been brainwashed into believing that they have some kind of right to privacy, which is absolutely insane. This kind of irrational paranoia is extremely common amongst tech people, especially on HN. I can't think of anything that could slow down progress more than fear of transparency. Yet I can't blame these people because they clearly don't know better. I regularly try to have discussions around the benefits of transparency and the unsustainable nature of privacy, but it's such a touchy subject that it inevitably gets buried.