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Amazonian here. My experience has been nothing like what was described in the article. A few quick hits: -In three years, I have never once seen anyone cry at

Amazonian here. My experience has been nothing like what was described in the article. A few quick hits: -In three years, I have never once seen anyone cry at Amazon. I've never even heard of anyone crying at work. -In re: secret feedback tool -- Note that it isn't anonymous. I know the article doesn't say it is, but "secret feedback" seems to imply it is, at least IMO. It's little more than a form for submitting an email to someone's boss. I've only ever heard of a sabotage attempt happening once, and it backfired as predictably as one would expect. -I remember hearing the phrase "climb the wall" once during my first week at orientation. Reading it in this article was the first time I've heard it in the three years since then. The company’s winners dream up innovations that they roll out to a quarter-billion customers and accrue small fortunes in soaring stock. Losers leave or are fired in annual cullings of the staff Correct. Good employees do well. Bad employees are eventually weeded out. This was not invented at Amazon. Some workers who suffered from cancer, miscarriages and other personal crises said they had been evaluated unfairly or edged out rather than given time to recover. I legitimately laughed out loud when I read this. Cancer! Miscarriages! Literally the two worst things to ever happen to most people in their lives when they strike! And, of course, not a single shred of evidence to support the claim. Well, unless you count "some workers" as a reliable source.

rdtsc 11y ago
> And, of course, not a single shred of evidence to support the claim. What is your evidence for working as an Amazonian? It is a bit hypocritical to critisize others for lack of "evidence" while posting from a throwaway account, donchathink?
- amznthrowaway21 11y ago
  Nope. Burden of proof falls on the party making the assertion. The NYT says X, based on no cited sources. When X is challenged, the burden falls to the NYT to prove X, not the person challenging the assertion. The fact that I'm an Amazonian has no bearing on any of that, and is actually little more than a red herring. The fact that I'm posting from a throwaway matters even less.
  - rdtsc 11y ago
    [from original article] > A woman who had thyroid cancer was given a low performance rating after she returned from treatment. She says her manager explained that while she was out, her peers were accomplishing a great deal. > Another employee who miscarried twins left for a business trip the day after she had surgery. “I’m sorry, the work is still going to need to get done,” she said her boss told her. “From where you are in life, trying to start a family, I don’t know if this is the right place for you.” To reiterate, your criticism was "well they have no proof"? Presumably you wanted to name these women, who one had cancer, and another had a miscarriage, and show a doctor's notice that those conditions happened. Then have a recording of their bosses telling them those things. I imagine there are probably quite a few reasons why these women wouldn't want their full names published in NYT. > The fact that I'm posting from a throwaway matters even less. Well actually that was the main point of my argument you assume those people should post their names, but they didn't so no proof, so well they made that up. Fine then, post your full name and where you work at Amazon then. It is not NYT after all. Just a friendly fireside chat on HN. ...Oh, you might have a few reasons I imagine you don't want that posted... So that was my point.
    - crucifiction 11y ago
      Its ridiculous claims because both of them are easy, enormous lawsuits if true. The fact that these people never sued for these claims makes it more likely this is exaggerated like a lot of the rest of the article.
      - rdtsc 11y ago
        Employement in the US is usually on "at-will" basis. That is usually sold to employees as "hey you can quit anytime, isn't that great". In reality the employer usually just means "hey, I can let you go anytime". Of course they can't fire for discriminatory stuff. They can't say "well this person is too old or not white enough or a woman". But they can say stuff like "for performance reasons", "restructuring", etc. even if they really mean the former reasons (race, color, gender, age...) as long as there is an official cover the law is on the employer's side. So I still don't see enormous lawsuit potential here. One was fired for "performance" reasons (wink-wink) and another for "culture fit" (wink-wink again). There is some potential but only with a recording/email/some kind of evidence.
happywolf 11y ago
It seems this person's post has been voted down. I may not fully agree with what he said, but I do feel he/she has provided another facet of Amazon, which adds value to the thread. I disagree voting this comment.

rdtsc 11y ago

> And, of course, not a single shred of evidence to support the claim. What is your evidence for working as an Amazonian? It is a bit hypocritical to critisize others for lack of "evidence" while posting from a throwaway account, donchathink?

amznthrowaway21 11y ago
Nope. Burden of proof falls on the party making the assertion. The NYT says X, based on no cited sources. When X is challenged, the burden falls to the NYT to prove X, not the person challenging the assertion. The fact that I'm an Amazonian has no bearing on any of that, and is actually little more than a red herring. The fact that I'm posting from a throwaway matters even less.
- rdtsc 11y ago
  [from original article] > A woman who had thyroid cancer was given a low performance rating after she returned from treatment. She says her manager explained that while she was out, her peers were accomplishing a great deal. > Another employee who miscarried twins left for a business trip the day after she had surgery. “I’m sorry, the work is still going to need to get done,” she said her boss told her. “From where you are in life, trying to start a family, I don’t know if this is the right place for you.” To reiterate, your criticism was "well they have no proof"? Presumably you wanted to name these women, who one had cancer, and another had a miscarriage, and show a doctor's notice that those conditions happened. Then have a recording of their bosses telling them those things. I imagine there are probably quite a few reasons why these women wouldn't want their full names published in NYT. > The fact that I'm posting from a throwaway matters even less. Well actually that was the main point of my argument you assume those people should post their names, but they didn't so no proof, so well they made that up. Fine then, post your full name and where you work at Amazon then. It is not NYT after all. Just a friendly fireside chat on HN. ...Oh, you might have a few reasons I imagine you don't want that posted... So that was my point.
  - crucifiction 11y ago
    Its ridiculous claims because both of them are easy, enormous lawsuits if true. The fact that these people never sued for these claims makes it more likely this is exaggerated like a lot of the rest of the article.
    - rdtsc 11y ago
      Employement in the US is usually on "at-will" basis. That is usually sold to employees as "hey you can quit anytime, isn't that great". In reality the employer usually just means "hey, I can let you go anytime". Of course they can't fire for discriminatory stuff. They can't say "well this person is too old or not white enough or a woman". But they can say stuff like "for performance reasons", "restructuring", etc. even if they really mean the former reasons (race, color, gender, age...) as long as there is an official cover the law is on the employer's side. So I still don't see enormous lawsuit potential here. One was fired for "performance" reasons (wink-wink) and another for "culture fit" (wink-wink again). There is some potential but only with a recording/email/some kind of evidence.

happywolf 11y ago

It seems this person's post has been voted down. I may not fully agree with what he said, but I do feel he/she has provided another facet of Amazon, which adds value to the thread. I disagree voting this comment.