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I think all value is subjective. What do you mean by 'absolute value as human beings'?

pdabbadabba 11y ago
I'm not the GP, but I'll take a stab. Human beings (and other sentient things) are special in that they are both subjects and objects of value. That is, human beings are both things that are valued and things that value. This means that human beings are capable of having value even if nobody else is around to value them--because they value themselves. I suspect that GP only means that keeping the sabbath, and disconnecting from everything else one gets wrapped up in in the course of everyday life, helps to remind you of this.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  One could imagine that a human exists that does not value their self? All of this is compatible with subjective value. It's even explicit in your description: 'they value themselves'. To have an absolute value, there must be an unchanging metric outside of human consciousness by which to measure humans.
  - pdabbadabba 11y ago
    > One could imagine that a human exists that does not value their self? Sure. I'm sure there are many such people. Does this make a difference for the purposes of this discussion? > all of this is compatible with subjective value. It's even explicit in your description: 'they value themselves'. Correct! I wasn't disagreeing, just trying to explain the sentiment in subjective terms.
- richmarr 11y ago
  > That is, human beings are both things that are valued and things that value. I'm not convinced there's enough evidence to support the claim that humans are the only species that assign value to things. Maybe I'm missing something.
  - NhanH 11y ago
    The statement that you quote does not seem to say the same things as your interpretation (it didn't say "only").
  - pdabbadabba 11y ago
    > Maybe I'm missing something. This part? > (and other sentient things)
lfam 11y ago
Let's call it a very strong and uncomplicated bias, as a human being ;) I see human consciousness as what makes a human being. I don't think that the value of this human consciousness changes, goes up or down, or exists in relation to anything besides that it is what we are. By the way, I see that my first comment could be read as if I was including myself in Sacks's faith community. I was not. Anyone can have something like the Sabbath.

I'm not the GP, but I'll take a stab. Human beings (and other sentient things) are special in that they are both subjects and objects of value. That is, human beings are both things that are valued and things that value. This means that human beings are capable of having value even if nobody else is around to value them--because they value themselves. I suspect that GP only means that keeping the sabbath, and disconnecting from everything else one gets wrapped up in in the course of everyday life, helps to remind you of this.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
One could imagine that a human exists that does not value their self? All of this is compatible with subjective value. It's even explicit in your description: 'they value themselves'. To have an absolute value, there must be an unchanging metric outside of human consciousness by which to measure humans.
- pdabbadabba 11y ago
  > One could imagine that a human exists that does not value their self? Sure. I'm sure there are many such people. Does this make a difference for the purposes of this discussion? > all of this is compatible with subjective value. It's even explicit in your description: 'they value themselves'. Correct! I wasn't disagreeing, just trying to explain the sentiment in subjective terms.
richmarr 11y ago
> That is, human beings are both things that are valued and things that value. I'm not convinced there's enough evidence to support the claim that humans are the only species that assign value to things. Maybe I'm missing something.
- NhanH 11y ago
  The statement that you quote does not seem to say the same things as your interpretation (it didn't say "only").
- pdabbadabba 11y ago
  > Maybe I'm missing something. This part? > (and other sentient things)

lfam 11y ago

Let's call it a very strong and uncomplicated bias, as a human being ;) I see human consciousness as what makes a human being. I don't think that the value of this human consciousness changes, goes up or down, or exists in relation to anything besides that it is what we are. By the way, I see that my first comment could be read as if I was including myself in Sacks's faith community. I was not. Anyone can have something like the Sabbath.