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Who are these lucky "rest of us" fellows who have both advanced technical infrastructure and no government spying? They don't live in the EU, Russia, and I gues

Who are these lucky "rest of us" fellows who have both advanced technical infrastructure and no government spying? They don't live in the EU, Russia, and I guess most of Asia.

comrade1 11y ago
The spying outside the u.s. is nothing like the corporate-government partnership spying in the u.s. You can go to any Western country besides the u.s. and not be subject to indiscriminate spying. What's funny is that if you're an American in the u.s. you have other governments in Europe, Australia, Canada, etc spying on you on behalf of the u.s. government and sending all of your information back to the u.s., but they're not spying on their own citizens to the same extent.
- jsmthrowaway 11y ago
  The idea that Five Eyes is unique in its pursuits and "any Western country besides the u.s." isn't monitoring everything that is technically possible is so naïve that I'm amazed you worked for PGP. I don't normally go after people for being anti-American, but I'll make an exception here because your ideology is making you look comical. You're a foreign national with an interest in cryptography living in Switzerland. Of all the people in the world who shouldn't be so absolutely clueless, it's you. They're on you like stink on shit, and suggesting otherwise is laughably stupid. What do you think, Switzerland became a discreet financial haven out of a measure of luck, while Swiss intelligence sat around being good, decent, idle people? For all of my extensive problems with U.S. intelligence, they at least made an effort to uphold the law. They failed, yes, but so many pivotal decisions were around the legal framework. I wonder how such a conversation goes in Ukrainian intelligence, or German, or Mexican. "We have a lead on El Chapo but we can't follow up because it's illegal to wiretap." Yeah, okay. Come back to reality, bud.
  - comrade1 11y ago
    You just spout a bunch of rhetoric and nothing substantial. All of your comments here are the same. You shill for the u.s. the government. Swiss intelligence is not idle. They were the group that leaked the report on the cia rendition programs, yet another illegal act by the u.s. intelligence community, but in this case by the CIA and not the NSA. U.S. intelligence has not made an effort to uphold the law. How could you even say that? They have only worked within the law retroactively - they've had to change the law retroactively to make what the NSA has been doing not illegal.
    - jsmthrowaway 11y ago
      So just to be clear, here, you claim to have worked for PGP, so you've been in the security industry at least a day or two, and yet you consider the opinion that the United States cannot possibly be the only bad actor rhetoric? I'm disputing your claim that other Western governments aren't as bad as the United States. Nobody knows that, everybody with half a clue assumes otherwise, and the irony of you going after my lack of substance in doing so is palpable. I'm going to reiterate, because I can't believe I'm having this conversation: you said, nearly verbatim, the other Western governments do not spy like the United States. And you consider that a sane opinion in the wake of these disclosures, and call me a shill for disputing it. The retroactive immunity to which you refer is one disclosure we know about. What I was speaking to was President Bush's PSP, which they made a significant effort to satisfy legality on. Everyone is in accord on that: them, Poitras, Snowden. They were wrong, particularly Gonzales, but they still tried to base it in the law until they lost the Justice Department. Even the FISA court is an attempt at legality. I'm not saying I agree, I'm saying the government made a conscious choice to try to play by the rules, even though their rule book was absolutely bananas. I'm making the case that in other governments, that same zeal might not apply, and there are probably governments wherein rights are more freely trampled upon. Again, that you think I'm a shill for presenting the completely normal security industry philosophy of don't trust anyone is just hilarious. I've been charged with multiple felonies by the United States justice system for CFAA-related offenses and convicted of one. I have the most stake in criticizing the way we do things. You're laying down smoke to cover your own opinions going after my "shill" status, and I want you to know that it's entirely transparent. Sometimes I think Hacker News is just trolls trolling trolls.

Who are these lucky "rest of us" fellows who have both advanced technical infrastructure and no government spying? They don't live in the EU, Russia, and I guess most of Asia.

comrade1 11y ago

The spying outside the u.s. is nothing like the corporate-government partnership spying in the u.s. You can go to any Western country besides the u.s. and not be subject to indiscriminate spying. What's funny is that if you're an American in the u.s. you have other governments in Europe, Australia, Canada, etc spying on you on behalf of the u.s. government and sending all of your information back to the u.s., but they're not spying on their own citizens to the same extent.

jsmthrowaway 11y ago
The idea that Five Eyes is unique in its pursuits and "any Western country besides the u.s." isn't monitoring everything that is technically possible is so naïve that I'm amazed you worked for PGP. I don't normally go after people for being anti-American, but I'll make an exception here because your ideology is making you look comical. You're a foreign national with an interest in cryptography living in Switzerland. Of all the people in the world who shouldn't be so absolutely clueless, it's you. They're on you like stink on shit, and suggesting otherwise is laughably stupid. What do you think, Switzerland became a discreet financial haven out of a measure of luck, while Swiss intelligence sat around being good, decent, idle people? For all of my extensive problems with U.S. intelligence, they at least made an effort to uphold the law. They failed, yes, but so many pivotal decisions were around the legal framework. I wonder how such a conversation goes in Ukrainian intelligence, or German, or Mexican. "We have a lead on El Chapo but we can't follow up because it's illegal to wiretap." Yeah, okay. Come back to reality, bud.
- comrade1 11y ago
  You just spout a bunch of rhetoric and nothing substantial. All of your comments here are the same. You shill for the u.s. the government. Swiss intelligence is not idle. They were the group that leaked the report on the cia rendition programs, yet another illegal act by the u.s. intelligence community, but in this case by the CIA and not the NSA. U.S. intelligence has not made an effort to uphold the law. How could you even say that? They have only worked within the law retroactively - they've had to change the law retroactively to make what the NSA has been doing not illegal.
  - jsmthrowaway 11y ago
    So just to be clear, here, you claim to have worked for PGP, so you've been in the security industry at least a day or two, and yet you consider the opinion that the United States cannot possibly be the only bad actor rhetoric? I'm disputing your claim that other Western governments aren't as bad as the United States. Nobody knows that, everybody with half a clue assumes otherwise, and the irony of you going after my lack of substance in doing so is palpable. I'm going to reiterate, because I can't believe I'm having this conversation: you said, nearly verbatim, the other Western governments do not spy like the United States. And you consider that a sane opinion in the wake of these disclosures, and call me a shill for disputing it. The retroactive immunity to which you refer is one disclosure we know about. What I was speaking to was President Bush's PSP, which they made a significant effort to satisfy legality on. Everyone is in accord on that: them, Poitras, Snowden. They were wrong, particularly Gonzales, but they still tried to base it in the law until they lost the Justice Department. Even the FISA court is an attempt at legality. I'm not saying I agree, I'm saying the government made a conscious choice to try to play by the rules, even though their rule book was absolutely bananas. I'm making the case that in other governments, that same zeal might not apply, and there are probably governments wherein rights are more freely trampled upon. Again, that you think I'm a shill for presenting the completely normal security industry philosophy of don't trust anyone is just hilarious. I've been charged with multiple felonies by the United States justice system for CFAA-related offenses and convicted of one. I have the most stake in criticizing the way we do things. You're laying down smoke to cover your own opinions going after my "shill" status, and I want you to know that it's entirely transparent. Sometimes I think Hacker News is just trolls trolling trolls.