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> Firstly, I'm not sure what "victimless" means exactly, and I think you may be taking it too literally. As people in the many comments below have pointed out,

> Firstly, I'm not sure what "victimless" means exactly, and I think you may be taking it too literally. As people in the many comments below have pointed out, there are plenty of crimes which are "victimless", e.g. taking a machine gun and "spraying" a crowd of people with bullets, but failing to hit anyone. Is this a "victimless" crime? You've just terrorized a crowd of people, that's hardly victim-less; plenty of people there to complain about direct harm you've caused them, perhaps a few who will suffer years of PTSD. Plenty of lawsuits about to happen, victims by definition. > At what point do we decide to set the bar? If no one is aware enough to try and sue you, then you haven't hurt them, and thus your action is by definition victimless. You seem to think DUI means alcohol only, it's a bigger issue than that and it's an absurd law that can get you in trouble literally days after you've been sober because it applies to all substances, not just alcohol. We have several states now with legal recreational marijuana, think about that. Many things people do while driving are far more influential on their response times than being "intoxicated", being tired is far more dangerous, being old is far worse on response times. DUI laws are unjust.

jschwartzi 11y ago
What's really telling to me is that in my state, you can even be arrested for sleeping one off in your car instead of being on the road. That says something to me about the purpose of the law. It suggests that its main purpose is to punish you for drinking, but that it has a side effect of encouraging you not to drive.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  Yup. The only purpose most laws have, is getting someone elected. DUI laws are quite simply unjust but they exist because appearing tough on crime tends to work. We don't pass laws to be effective, if we did, many of the existing ones wouldn't exist.
- DanBC 11y ago
  You're still in charge ofthe vehicle even if you're not driving it. Plenty of drunk people have a nap, wake up a few hours later and think they're not drunk and drive, even though they still are drunk.
  - jschwartzi 11y ago
    In terms of harm minimization though, having a law which punishes you when you try to make the safest decision out of those available to you is messed up. I would much rather someone sleep 4 hours of a drunk off rather than trying to swerve home. Chances are, after 4 hours, they'll be closer to sleep deprived people in terms of their driving ability.

jschwartzi 11y ago

What's really telling to me is that in my state, you can even be arrested for sleeping one off in your car instead of being on the road. That says something to me about the purpose of the law. It suggests that its main purpose is to punish you for drinking, but that it has a side effect of encouraging you not to drive.

gnaritas 11y ago
Yup. The only purpose most laws have, is getting someone elected. DUI laws are quite simply unjust but they exist because appearing tough on crime tends to work. We don't pass laws to be effective, if we did, many of the existing ones wouldn't exist.
DanBC 11y ago
You're still in charge ofthe vehicle even if you're not driving it. Plenty of drunk people have a nap, wake up a few hours later and think they're not drunk and drive, even though they still are drunk.
- jschwartzi 11y ago
  In terms of harm minimization though, having a law which punishes you when you try to make the safest decision out of those available to you is messed up. I would much rather someone sleep 4 hours of a drunk off rather than trying to swerve home. Chances are, after 4 hours, they'll be closer to sleep deprived people in terms of their driving ability.