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I think the main complaint is that it seems like Google, instead of developing a great product that people actually want to use, are trying to lock people in to

by znfi 11y ago

I think the main complaint is that it seems like Google, instead of developing a great product that people actually want to use, are trying to lock people in to what they already have. I've never really used Google Groups, but then this might be a good thing in this case. Just trying it quickly, there doesn't seem to be any way to subscribe to a group without getting a Google account, I guess after doing so you might be able to just forward it all to whatever email you want. But to an outsider it certainly doesn't look like "an email listserv", and it's not entirely clear how to use it as such. Whether this makes Google Groups "shitty", I'm not sure. I guess a large part of it is about expectations. Does Google still claim to "do no evil"? I'm sure if it was Microsoft that was running the service then no one would be surprised. (Regarding the actual interface, atleast I find for example gmane to have a much better interface, Google Groups seems very bloated with lots of dead space. One additional thing, as a none native English speaker, Google Groups shows for each message, a rather large box with a question asking if I'd like a translation of that post. I have a hard time believing this feature is used enough to warrant the amount of space that's spent on it.)

jostylr 11y ago
The manager of a group can add emails of people without google accounts. They then only get emails (no web interface meaning no searching) and they cannot change the settings from digest to individual though the manager can. A wee bit unfriendly, to be sure, but it gets it done.
DanBC 11y ago
> Whether this makes Google Groups "shitty", I'm not sure. I guess a large part of it is about expectations. Does Google still claim to "do no evil"? I'm sure if it was Microsoft that was running the service then no one would be surprised. Microsoft had a bunch of newsgroups running onicrosoft servers. Some of those newsgroups propagated outside MS. It was a nice experience. There was the Microsoft MVP (most valued professional) programme where people with in-depth knowledge of a product and reasonable people-skills would provide peer support. Including the term MVP in a web search would return the websites for those people. For years (and probably still) those pages were sources of xcellent information about MS products. Here's one example. Search terms [excel fill handle MVP] http://dmcritchie.mvps.org/excel/fillhand.htm http://dmcritchie.mvps.org/excel/fillhand.htm This page loads instantly. It tells me what the fill handle is, what it does, how to use it, how to trouble shoot it, how to get more information about it, how to use the existing MS Excel documentation to get this information. It covers some advanced fill handle use, and some gotchas. It alsotells you whih parts of this information are not found in the help files. In this case: MS did good[1] things for Usenet. Google fucked it. [1] ignoring the massive amounts of sub-optimality caused by OE having some Usenet functionality but being buggy and insecure.
tired_man 11y ago
> Whether this makes Google Groups "shitty", I'm not sure. I guess a large part of it is about expectations. Does Google still claim to "do no evil"? I'm sure if it was Microsoft that was running the service then no one would be surprised. Unfortunately, "Do No Evil" does not include, "Don't Be A Dick." Google has killed 15-20 years worth of information that's not only of interest for it's history, but for the still useful conversations on damned near any topic you can think of. Ok, so not everything is still useful. I can't argue that since there were plenty of sports and entertainment groups, but there were also many groups whose information doesn't really become stale. In hiding this data, Google has fucked over anyone who might have benefited from finding it. Hell, the very damned first time I ever heard of Google was an announcement on USENET. I thought they were pretty slick then and I started using Google instead of DogPile(? I think it was dogpile. That was a long time ago.).
patja 11y ago
You can create a Google account for any email address...no need to create a gmail account just to setup forwarding to somewhere else. Or will those accounts not work with Google Groups?

by znfi 11y ago

jostylr 11y ago

The manager of a group can add emails of people without google accounts. They then only get emails (no web interface meaning no searching) and they cannot change the settings from digest to individual though the manager can. A wee bit unfriendly, to be sure, but it gets it done.

DanBC 11y ago

> Whether this makes Google Groups "shitty", I'm not sure. I guess a large part of it is about expectations. Does Google still claim to "do no evil"? I'm sure if it was Microsoft that was running the service then no one would be surprised. Microsoft had a bunch of newsgroups running onicrosoft servers. Some of those newsgroups propagated outside MS. It was a nice experience. There was the Microsoft MVP (most valued professional) programme where people with in-depth knowledge of a product and reasonable people-skills would provide peer support. Including the term MVP in a web search would return the websites for those people. For years (and probably still) those pages were sources of xcellent information about MS products. Here's one example. Search terms [excel fill handle MVP] http://dmcritchie.mvps.org/excel/fillhand.htm http://dmcritchie.mvps.org/excel/fillhand.htm This page loads instantly. It tells me what the fill handle is, what it does, how to use it, how to trouble shoot it, how to get more information about it, how to use the existing MS Excel documentation to get this information. It covers some advanced fill handle use, and some gotchas. It alsotells you whih parts of this information are not found in the help files. In this case: MS did good[1] things for Usenet. Google fucked it. [1] ignoring the massive amounts of sub-optimality caused by OE having some Usenet functionality but being buggy and insecure.

tired_man 11y ago

> Whether this makes Google Groups "shitty", I'm not sure. I guess a large part of it is about expectations. Does Google still claim to "do no evil"? I'm sure if it was Microsoft that was running the service then no one would be surprised. Unfortunately, "Do No Evil" does not include, "Don't Be A Dick." Google has killed 15-20 years worth of information that's not only of interest for it's history, but for the still useful conversations on damned near any topic you can think of. Ok, so not everything is still useful. I can't argue that since there were plenty of sports and entertainment groups, but there were also many groups whose information doesn't really become stale. In hiding this data, Google has fucked over anyone who might have benefited from finding it. Hell, the very damned first time I ever heard of Google was an announcement on USENET. I thought they were pretty slick then and I started using Google instead of DogPile(? I think it was dogpile. That was a long time ago.).

patja 11y ago

You can create a Google account for any email address...no need to create a gmail account just to setup forwarding to somewhere else. Or will those accounts not work with Google Groups?