5 ms·

Snake Oil Crypto Competition

104 points by aburan28 11y ago

jcr 11y ago
> "Potential extra features (worth extra points):" > "+ Protection against front-channel attacks." I think I just hurt myself laughing.
PhantomGremlin 11y ago
I assume this is something put up by Dan Bernstein, since that's his domain. Please, can someone explain what this is about? E.g. Dan mentions the inventors of Rijndael, which is AES. What is his complaint about it?
- hluska 11y ago
  I'm not qualified to answer that question, but I was curious too, did some googling and found another resource. This is still not very satisfying, but there is a little more information on the Reddit thread about this competition: https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/1us6a1/snake_oil_crypto_competition/ https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/1us6a1/snake_oil_cr...?
- sdevlin 11y ago
  The major complaint against AES is that it is very difficult to implement in a data-independent way without hardware support. Bernstein has done some research on this (http://cr.yp.to/antiforgery/cachetiming-20050414.pdf http://cr.yp.to/antiforgery/cachetiming-20050414.pdf), and a major theme of his research has been designing systems that are friendly to implementers. I have no idea if that is what this specific dig ("they already master the art of snake oil") pertains to.
Retr0spectrum 11y ago
http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions.html http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions.html
zymhan 11y ago
I clicked on one of the submissions and the paper is in Comic Sans: http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions/Lolcipher%20Submission.pdf http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions/Lolcipher%20Submission.... This is hilarious.
- chronolitus 11y ago
  I'm glad I took the time to read this
chatmasta 11y ago
I was disappointed to realize the snake-oil competition is a parody, because a properly-implemented version of it could teach valuable lessons to non-technical consumers. Many products make outrageous claims about their security. Try browsing the aisles of Best Buy or any major department store. From smart-home sensors to security-cameras to anti-virus software, the shelves are stocked full with snake-oil security products advertising themselves as legitimate. These are the products that big retailers and OEM partners are marketing to the public as "secure," with much lower standards for security than any expert would assert. To prove this to the public, what better way than a competition for benevolent security researchers to create a wolf-in-sheeps-clothing? The competition is to produce most shiny, marketable product design that looks like a "security" product, but does something far more sinister than protect its users. Product ideas: "Anonymous router" that actually logs all traffic and sends it to a printer in the local police office; "Smart Home Hub" that performs active exploitation attacks against connected devices; "Smart TV" that actually films its users and live streams their living room to a website. (Bonus points if they credit real products!)
- bugmen0t 11y ago
  You must be looking for the Underhanded Crypto Contest: The Underhanded Crypto Contest is a competition to write or modify crypto code that appears to be secure, but actually does something evil. See https://underhandedcrypto.com/ https://underhandedcrypto.com/
  - thaumasiotes 11y ago
    related: the Underhanded C Contest ( http://www.underhanded-c.org/ http://www.underhanded-c.org/ ) Apparently this year's contest just opened.
- userbinator 11y ago
  "Smart TV" that actually films its users and live streams their living room to a website. That's been done, 2 years ago: http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/01/technology/security/tv-hack/ http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/01/technology/security/tv-hack/
pakled_engineer 11y ago
>Trying to change winner's parameters. >Changing winner's parameters to default ones. >Retraction of the idea to change parameters. Speaking of Keccak their landing page is full of snake-oily marketing such as "rock-solid security strength level" and "heavier SHAKE512" or "extremely high 256 bits" like they are trying to sell me a battle armor video game addon. I realize there is misinformation floating around ever since the questionable SHA3 competition but bolding arbitrary words and injecting "rock-solid" into your criticism debunking isn't helping. http://keccak.noekeon.org/ http://keccak.noekeon.org/
- tptacek 11y ago
  "The questionable SHA3 competition"?
1ris 11y ago
I wonder what the general crypto communities views on Kenny Patterson, Orr Dunkelman, Stefan Lucks or Tanja Lange are.
- tptacek 11y ago
  That list of names is a decent slice of "the general crypto community".
- beagle3 11y ago
  I am not really part of the "crypto community", but I know that Tanja Lange and Orr Dunkelman are both held in high regard (am not familiar with the other two names).
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Kenny Paterson is the new co-chair of IETF CFRG and a professor at RHUL. Best known recently for his work breaking RC4. Lucks is a well known research cryptanalyst and one of the co-inventors of the Skein SHA3 finalist.
- sarciszewski 11y ago
  The only name on that list that I know off the top of my head is Tanja Lange, and she has earned a lot of respect for her work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jTFxQaUJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jTFxQaUJA - Her and the author of this parody at 31C3 last year, teaching ECC.
mhuffman 11y ago
rot26 ftw!
GTP 11y ago
Yesterday I started writing a paper for Snake Oil Crypto Competition and today I sent it them. I hope they will accept it!

104 points by aburan28 11y ago

jcr 11y ago

> "Potential extra features (worth extra points):" > "+ Protection against front-channel attacks." I think I just hurt myself laughing.

PhantomGremlin 11y ago

I assume this is something put up by Dan Bernstein, since that's his domain. Please, can someone explain what this is about? E.g. Dan mentions the inventors of Rijndael, which is AES. What is his complaint about it?

hluska 11y ago
I'm not qualified to answer that question, but I was curious too, did some googling and found another resource. This is still not very satisfying, but there is a little more information on the Reddit thread about this competition: https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/1us6a1/snake_oil_crypto_competition/ https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/1us6a1/snake_oil_cr...?
sdevlin 11y ago
The major complaint against AES is that it is very difficult to implement in a data-independent way without hardware support. Bernstein has done some research on this (http://cr.yp.to/antiforgery/cachetiming-20050414.pdf http://cr.yp.to/antiforgery/cachetiming-20050414.pdf), and a major theme of his research has been designing systems that are friendly to implementers. I have no idea if that is what this specific dig ("they already master the art of snake oil") pertains to.

Retr0spectrum 11y ago

http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions.html http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions.html

zymhan 11y ago

I clicked on one of the submissions and the paper is in Comic Sans: http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions/Lolcipher%20Submission.pdf http://snakeoil.cr.yp.to/submissions/Lolcipher%20Submission.... This is hilarious.

chronolitus 11y ago
I'm glad I took the time to read this

chatmasta 11y ago

I was disappointed to realize the snake-oil competition is a parody, because a properly-implemented version of it could teach valuable lessons to non-technical consumers. Many products make outrageous claims about their security. Try browsing the aisles of Best Buy or any major department store. From smart-home sensors to security-cameras to anti-virus software, the shelves are stocked full with snake-oil security products advertising themselves as legitimate. These are the products that big retailers and OEM partners are marketing to the public as "secure," with much lower standards for security than any expert would assert. To prove this to the public, what better way than a competition for benevolent security researchers to create a wolf-in-sheeps-clothing? The competition is to produce most shiny, marketable product design that looks like a "security" product, but does something far more sinister than protect its users. Product ideas: "Anonymous router" that actually logs all traffic and sends it to a printer in the local police office; "Smart Home Hub" that performs active exploitation attacks against connected devices; "Smart TV" that actually films its users and live streams their living room to a website. (Bonus points if they credit real products!)

bugmen0t 11y ago
You must be looking for the Underhanded Crypto Contest: The Underhanded Crypto Contest is a competition to write or modify crypto code that appears to be secure, but actually does something evil. See https://underhandedcrypto.com/ https://underhandedcrypto.com/
- thaumasiotes 11y ago
  related: the Underhanded C Contest ( http://www.underhanded-c.org/ http://www.underhanded-c.org/ ) Apparently this year's contest just opened.
userbinator 11y ago
"Smart TV" that actually films its users and live streams their living room to a website. That's been done, 2 years ago: http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/01/technology/security/tv-hack/ http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/01/technology/security/tv-hack/

pakled_engineer 11y ago

>Trying to change winner's parameters. >Changing winner's parameters to default ones. >Retraction of the idea to change parameters. Speaking of Keccak their landing page is full of snake-oily marketing such as "rock-solid security strength level" and "heavier SHAKE512" or "extremely high 256 bits" like they are trying to sell me a battle armor video game addon. I realize there is misinformation floating around ever since the questionable SHA3 competition but bolding arbitrary words and injecting "rock-solid" into your criticism debunking isn't helping. http://keccak.noekeon.org/ http://keccak.noekeon.org/

tptacek 11y ago
"The questionable SHA3 competition"?

1ris 11y ago

I wonder what the general crypto communities views on Kenny Patterson, Orr Dunkelman, Stefan Lucks or Tanja Lange are.

tptacek 11y ago
That list of names is a decent slice of "the general crypto community".
beagle3 11y ago
I am not really part of the "crypto community", but I know that Tanja Lange and Orr Dunkelman are both held in high regard (am not familiar with the other two names).
- tptacek 11y ago
  Kenny Paterson is the new co-chair of IETF CFRG and a professor at RHUL. Best known recently for his work breaking RC4. Lucks is a well known research cryptanalyst and one of the co-inventors of the Skein SHA3 finalist.
sarciszewski 11y ago
The only name on that list that I know off the top of my head is Tanja Lange, and she has earned a lot of respect for her work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jTFxQaUJA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jTFxQaUJA - Her and the author of this parody at 31C3 last year, teaching ECC.

mhuffman 11y ago

rot26 ftw!

GTP 11y ago

Yesterday I started writing a paper for Snake Oil Crypto Competition and today I sent it them. I hope they will accept it!