3 ms·

Oh? By whom, exactly?

by tsotha 11y ago

drewrv 11y ago
Rick Santorum has accused universities of "indoctrination" and "killing religion". http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-santorum-left-uses-college-for-indoctrination/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-santorum-left-uses-college-... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201203/college-kills-religion-santorum-says https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201203/... James Inhofe has written a book about how climate science is supposedly a hoax. http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Hoax-Conspiracy-Threatens/dp/1936488493 http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Hoax-Conspiracy-Threatens... Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “punch in the face” http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/chris-christie-to-teachers-union-you-deserve-a-punch-in-the-face/2015/08/03/86358c2c-39de-11e5-8e98-115a3cf7d7ae_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/chris-christie...
- tsotha 11y ago
  >Rick Santorum has accused universities of "indoctrination" and "killing religion". The universities are heavily in the business of indoctrination. That's why millennials are so much more pro gay marriage and anti free speech than their elders. The "killing religion" part is overblown. >James Inhofe has written a book about how climate science is supposedly a hoax. Much of it is. There is evidence to suggest the earth is warming, but anyone who tells you he can predict the global surface temperature in 20 years is selling you something. I don't know where people got the idea wild statements based entirely on demonstrably wrong models are Teh Science. >Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “punch in the face”. It does. Note there's a huge difference between teachers and the AFT. In most places you don't don't get to decide whether or not part of your paycheck goes to the union, so it's a bit disingenuous to characterize that as an attack on teachers. I don't know how we reached the point where to work as a teacher I would have to pay money to a third party that's going to support political candidates and educational policy I oppose. I'd also point out regardless of what they say or don't say governors of both parties across the country are looking ofr ways to curtail the power of public employee unions.
  - asgard1024 11y ago
    I downvoted you, mostly because of this sentence: > but anyone who tells you he can predict the global surface temperature in 20 years is selling you something They are predicting the averages, not exact numbers. It's like when someone is predicting average dice roll, it can be done even though the exact next dice roll cannot be predicted. This is one of the most misunderstood aspects of climate science.
    - tsotha 11y ago
      Except if you go back twenty years you'll see their predictions haven't even come close to panning out on "the averages". The data set is crap, and there's no way to validate the models. Normally in science when your model turns out to be wrong you realize you don't really understand what's going on. Not these people, though. There's too much hubris, money, and professional standing at stake for anyone to admit he doesn't know any more than a five year old extrapolating historical data with a crayon.
      - asgard1024 11y ago
        These are different objections. I get the feeling the problem is you, you don't want to understand the science. And I can't help you if you don't state more precisely what your objection is. For example, you say "data and model are wrong" - which data and what model? Predicting rate of change is a tricky problem, because it's nonlinear transition phenomenon. We can easily predict the resulting steady state, though. So for instance, in some areas, scientists grossly underestimated the rate of change - for example Arctic sea ice. But that doesn't mean they don't understand what's going on - the resulting steady state (what amount of warming are we going to get, called climate sensitivity) is actually quite well understood both from history and models.
        tsotha 11y ago
        >These are different objections. I get the feeling the problem is you, you don't want to understand the science. I'm well equipped by training to understand the science. No, the problem is you don't like it when people tell you your emperor has no clothes. Look, when your model doesn't agree with reality that doesn't mean it's mostly right. It means you don't understand the system. You say you can predict the steady state, but you have no way to validate that assertion. It's all based on speculative modeling.
- yellowapple 11y ago
  > Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “punch in the face” To be fair, teachers' unions do tend to cause a desire for percussive maintenance. In my own (admittedly anecdotal) observation, said unions tend to be run by - and thus prioritize - tenured teachers over all other factors (including actual approval from students, parents, other faculty, etc., and also including test results, passing rates, etc.). This results in skilled, fresh talent to be the first for consideration when schools need to cut back on teacher employment, rather than the arguably better alternative of encouraging some of the more tenured teachers to retire. This isn't to mention that said unions tend to impose dues regardless of whether or not one is a member, and that said unions frequently take political stances that the dues-payers may or may not agree with. This isn't to say that the concept of a teachers' union in and of itself is a bad idea - far from it. Rather, in their contemporary form, they seem to be getting more in the way of education (by favoring tenured and perhaps out-of-touch educators over younger, fresher educators with more modern foundations; also, by favoring said tenured and more expensive teachers over younger, less expensive teachers, thus contributing to higher class sizes and thus a degradation of educational quality for students) than they are helping education. Granted, I'm not really involved in the inner workings of teachers' unions, and my experience is limited to both what I saw as a student and what I continue to see among friends who got into teaching, so maybe these tendencies aren't universal.

Oh? By whom, exactly?

by tsotha 11y ago

Oh? By whom, exactly?

Rick Santorum has accused universities of "indoctrination" and "killing religion". http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-santorum-left-uses-college-for-indoctrination/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rick-santorum-left-uses-college-... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201203/college-kills-religion-santorum-says https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201203/... James Inhofe has written a book about how climate science is supposedly a hoax. http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Hoax-Conspiracy-Threatens/dp/1936488493 http://www.amazon.com/The-Greatest-Hoax-Conspiracy-Threatens... Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “punch in the face” http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/chris-christie-to-teachers-union-you-deserve-a-punch-in-the-face/2015/08/03/86358c2c-39de-11e5-8e98-115a3cf7d7ae_story.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/chris-christie...

tsotha 11y ago
>Rick Santorum has accused universities of "indoctrination" and "killing religion". The universities are heavily in the business of indoctrination. That's why millennials are so much more pro gay marriage and anti free speech than their elders. The "killing religion" part is overblown. >James Inhofe has written a book about how climate science is supposedly a hoax. Much of it is. There is evidence to suggest the earth is warming, but anyone who tells you he can predict the global surface temperature in 20 years is selling you something. I don't know where people got the idea wild statements based entirely on demonstrably wrong models are Teh Science. >Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “punch in the face”. It does. Note there's a huge difference between teachers and the AFT. In most places you don't don't get to decide whether or not part of your paycheck goes to the union, so it's a bit disingenuous to characterize that as an attack on teachers. I don't know how we reached the point where to work as a teacher I would have to pay money to a third party that's going to support political candidates and educational policy I oppose. I'd also point out regardless of what they say or don't say governors of both parties across the country are looking ofr ways to curtail the power of public employee unions.
- asgard1024 11y ago
  I downvoted you, mostly because of this sentence: > but anyone who tells you he can predict the global surface temperature in 20 years is selling you something They are predicting the averages, not exact numbers. It's like when someone is predicting average dice roll, it can be done even though the exact next dice roll cannot be predicted. This is one of the most misunderstood aspects of climate science.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    Except if you go back twenty years you'll see their predictions haven't even come close to panning out on "the averages". The data set is crap, and there's no way to validate the models. Normally in science when your model turns out to be wrong you realize you don't really understand what's going on. Not these people, though. There's too much hubris, money, and professional standing at stake for anyone to admit he doesn't know any more than a five year old extrapolating historical data with a crayon.
    - asgard1024 11y ago
      These are different objections. I get the feeling the problem is you, you don't want to understand the science. And I can't help you if you don't state more precisely what your objection is. For example, you say "data and model are wrong" - which data and what model? Predicting rate of change is a tricky problem, because it's nonlinear transition phenomenon. We can easily predict the resulting steady state, though. So for instance, in some areas, scientists grossly underestimated the rate of change - for example Arctic sea ice. But that doesn't mean they don't understand what's going on - the resulting steady state (what amount of warming are we going to get, called climate sensitivity) is actually quite well understood both from history and models.
      - tsotha 11y ago
        >These are different objections. I get the feeling the problem is you, you don't want to understand the science. I'm well equipped by training to understand the science. No, the problem is you don't like it when people tell you your emperor has no clothes. Look, when your model doesn't agree with reality that doesn't mean it's mostly right. It means you don't understand the system. You say you can predict the steady state, but you have no way to validate that assertion. It's all based on speculative modeling.
yellowapple 11y ago
> Chris Christie said that a national teachers union deserves a “punch in the face” To be fair, teachers' unions do tend to cause a desire for percussive maintenance. In my own (admittedly anecdotal) observation, said unions tend to be run by - and thus prioritize - tenured teachers over all other factors (including actual approval from students, parents, other faculty, etc., and also including test results, passing rates, etc.). This results in skilled, fresh talent to be the first for consideration when schools need to cut back on teacher employment, rather than the arguably better alternative of encouraging some of the more tenured teachers to retire. This isn't to mention that said unions tend to impose dues regardless of whether or not one is a member, and that said unions frequently take political stances that the dues-payers may or may not agree with. This isn't to say that the concept of a teachers' union in and of itself is a bad idea - far from it. Rather, in their contemporary form, they seem to be getting more in the way of education (by favoring tenured and perhaps out-of-touch educators over younger, fresher educators with more modern foundations; also, by favoring said tenured and more expensive teachers over younger, less expensive teachers, thus contributing to higher class sizes and thus a degradation of educational quality for students) than they are helping education. Granted, I'm not really involved in the inner workings of teachers' unions, and my experience is limited to both what I saw as a student and what I continue to see among friends who got into teaching, so maybe these tendencies aren't universal.