4 ms·

Knowing what you do of neuroscience and caffeine, do you personally consume caffeine? Do you think it is a "Bad Thing" to drink coffee?

qiqing 11y ago
I think it's useful to think of it not as a "bad thing" but as a very high-interest loan from your future self. In moments of weakness and pushing a deadline, I have sometimes rationalize the trade-off of future time/health to present time, and sometimes, that sticks me with tolerance that it takes time to wean off. I have made a conscious effort to quit caffeine dozens of times in my life, and the most recent time it has stuck, and I plan to stick with it. The thing is, when I gain "time" with caffeine, it's not necessarily time with high-quality cognition or productivity compared to my well-rested self, and it's easy to forget to take that into account when you're making trade-off decisions when tired. You still perform like a tired person, you're just not subjectively feeling the tiredness. FWIW, drinking decaf gives you the health benefits of coffee with 5% (kinda negligible) amounts of caffeine.
- dj-wonk 11y ago
  Which kind(s) of decaf do you like? They are made by different processes, and I wonder which ones are 'more natural' or healthier.
  - qiqing 11y ago
    Personally, I enjoy the flavor of Swiss water decaf more than others (and by reasoning of the "Dorito effect," that flavor may have something nontrivial to do with the nutrients left in it; it also happens to not use additional solvents). That said, a lot of the risky solvents used in the usual methods of making decaf are no longer commercially used these days, so I don't think there's a serious health risk in drinking any ol' decaf you want.
- ElComradio 11y ago
  I had heard that alcoholics who drink coffee have a markedly decreased chance of developing cirrhosis, something like a 60% reduction. But only for regular caffeinated coffee- not tea, not decaf coffee. Do you have any insight into why or is this not true?
  - qiqing 11y ago
    Huh, I hadn't seen that until just now, but I looked up this paper (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11557177 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11557177) and a more recent one that cited that one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110174/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110174/ Notes for below: * CHB/CHC -> chronic hepatitis B/C * NAFLD -> Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease When discussing possible mechanisms for their findings: "We postulate that the observation of the benefit of coffee on the progression of liver disease may be due to its effects on the oxidative stress/lipotoxicity pathway, which underlie the pathogenesis of cirrhosis related to alcohol, NAFLD and possibly, in part, CHC. However, since oxidative stress is not the predominant mechanism of injury seen in CHB, coffee has no beneficial effect. Polyphenols and melanoidins, which are major components of coffee, have been shown to mediate multiple protective mechanisms in a rat model of steatohepatitis, ranging from increased fatty acid β oxidation, mitigating oxidative stress and curtailing liver inflammation (47). The other components of coffee, cafestol and kahwoel, can induce phase II detoxifying enzymes, including sulfotransferase, UDP-glucuronosyl transferase, glutathione transferase and peroxidase, and thus contribute to the anti-oxidant properties of coffee (14, 48). In addition, chemicals in coffee such as polyphenols and the diterpenes have been shown to down-regulate proinflammatory, fibrogenic cytokines such as transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) and its downstream modulator, connective tissue growth factor (CTGF), collagen and stellate cell activation (13–16). Epidemiologic studies on caffeine have been inconsistent in demonstrating a protective effect in liver disease since other caffeine-containing beverages such as tea have not shown to be protective (19–21). Similarly, in our study, the inverse association with caffeine became null after adjustment for coffee, suggesting that ingredients of coffee other than caffeine appear to be responsible for this beverage’s effect on risk reduction. Furthermore, other caffeine-containing beverages like green tea and black tea had no significant effects with cirrhosis mortality in this study."
- bamie9l 11y ago
  I gave up caffeine a few years ago, for the very reasons you speak of. I feel completely different now - my thinking is broad and calm, rather than narrow and frantic.

qiqing 11y ago

I think it's useful to think of it not as a "bad thing" but as a very high-interest loan from your future self. In moments of weakness and pushing a deadline, I have sometimes rationalize the trade-off of future time/health to present time, and sometimes, that sticks me with tolerance that it takes time to wean off. I have made a conscious effort to quit caffeine dozens of times in my life, and the most recent time it has stuck, and I plan to stick with it. The thing is, when I gain "time" with caffeine, it's not necessarily time with high-quality cognition or productivity compared to my well-rested self, and it's easy to forget to take that into account when you're making trade-off decisions when tired. You still perform like a tired person, you're just not subjectively feeling the tiredness. FWIW, drinking decaf gives you the health benefits of coffee with 5% (kinda negligible) amounts of caffeine.

dj-wonk 11y ago
Which kind(s) of decaf do you like? They are made by different processes, and I wonder which ones are 'more natural' or healthier.
- qiqing 11y ago
  Personally, I enjoy the flavor of Swiss water decaf more than others (and by reasoning of the "Dorito effect," that flavor may have something nontrivial to do with the nutrients left in it; it also happens to not use additional solvents). That said, a lot of the risky solvents used in the usual methods of making decaf are no longer commercially used these days, so I don't think there's a serious health risk in drinking any ol' decaf you want.
ElComradio 11y ago
I had heard that alcoholics who drink coffee have a markedly decreased chance of developing cirrhosis, something like a 60% reduction. But only for regular caffeinated coffee- not tea, not decaf coffee. Do you have any insight into why or is this not true?
- qiqing 11y ago
  Huh, I hadn't seen that until just now, but I looked up this paper (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11557177 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11557177) and a more recent one that cited that one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110174/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110174/ Notes for below: * CHB/CHC -> chronic hepatitis B/C * NAFLD -> Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease When discussing possible mechanisms for their findings: "We postulate that the observation of the benefit of coffee on the progression of liver disease may be due to its effects on the oxidative stress/lipotoxicity pathway, which underlie the pathogenesis of cirrhosis related to alcohol, NAFLD and possibly, in part, CHC. However, since oxidative stress is not the predominant mechanism of injury seen in CHB, coffee has no beneficial effect. Polyphenols and melanoidins, which are major components of coffee, have been shown to mediate multiple protective mechanisms in a rat model of steatohepatitis, ranging from increased fatty acid β oxidation, mitigating oxidative stress and curtailing liver inflammation (47). The other components of coffee, cafestol and kahwoel, can induce phase II detoxifying enzymes, including sulfotransferase, UDP-glucuronosyl transferase, glutathione transferase and peroxidase, and thus contribute to the anti-oxidant properties of coffee (14, 48). In addition, chemicals in coffee such as polyphenols and the diterpenes have been shown to down-regulate proinflammatory, fibrogenic cytokines such as transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) and its downstream modulator, connective tissue growth factor (CTGF), collagen and stellate cell activation (13–16). Epidemiologic studies on caffeine have been inconsistent in demonstrating a protective effect in liver disease since other caffeine-containing beverages such as tea have not shown to be protective (19–21). Similarly, in our study, the inverse association with caffeine became null after adjustment for coffee, suggesting that ingredients of coffee other than caffeine appear to be responsible for this beverage’s effect on risk reduction. Furthermore, other caffeine-containing beverages like green tea and black tea had no significant effects with cirrhosis mortality in this study."
bamie9l 11y ago
I gave up caffeine a few years ago, for the very reasons you speak of. I feel completely different now - my thinking is broad and calm, rather than narrow and frantic.