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"Completely off the grid" "Water is delivered to us on a truck every 6 weeks or so" I always thought "off the grid" meant that you were completely self suffic

"Completely off the grid" "Water is delivered to us on a truck every 6 weeks or so" I always thought "off the grid" meant that you were completely self sufficient. What's the difference in relying on water being delivered by pipe and water being delivered by truck? [edit] Yeah. You know somebody is being very liberal with the usage of "Completely off the grid" when they have Internet access.

adsche 11y ago
> What's the difference in relying on water being delivered by pipe and water being delivered by truck? It's in the text if it's not obvious: One of them is a limited supply. With the implication that you are more more water conscious.
- leni536 11y ago
  And costs gas to be delivered. You can be more water conscious on the grid too.
Gys 11y ago
> The kitchen and water heater run on propane, which we purchase roughly once a year As in most places 'on the grid' in this world > [internet] about 18-20 Mbit down and 5-10 Mbit up As in 'by far better then most places in this world' So actually the 'off the grid' here means generating your own electricity and having a low latency (solvable by connecting directly to a nearby town that probably has a supermarket or such as well). Could be worse.
- adsche 11y ago
  What "off the grid" here means is defined in the very first paragraph: "The house itself is [...] completely off the grid. It has no hookups for water, gas, or electricity." Of course it could be worse, but why should it have to? EDIT: Here you go: ><((((*>
  - mike-cardwell 11y ago
    "No hookups for water, gas, or electricity." So if I take my house in the middle of a city, get water delivered in containers, install solar panels and use my fireplace for cooking, I am now "completely off the grid" ? How about if I just eat out every day? Am I still off the grid? Should I disconnect my landline and just use a mobile phone instead?
    - shard 11y ago
      To me, off the grid refers to not being connected to the electric grid, with the broader meaning of not being connected to any public utilities. So your scenario of a house in the city getting wafer from delivery, electricity from solar, and firewood for cooking would be in my opinion "off the grid".
profsnuggles 11y ago
What is your definition of off the grid? I can't help but think you are being pedantic here. He mentions he could dig a well, but it's more cost effective to have water shipped in. As far as Internet access I'm sure that he needs it for his job so he can afford to purchase things like water or pay property taxes. At some point you have to interface with the rest of society, it is impossible for an individual to be 100% self sufficient.
- mike-cardwell 11y ago
  I don't think I'm being pedantic when he says he is "completely" off the grid. If you're going to claim to be "completely" off the grid, then you should be completely self sufficient. Re digging a well. Is your definition of "off the grid" related to how much something costs? If it costs too much, we'll just pretend it's not included in the definition?
  - profsnuggles 11y ago
    How would he be completely self sufficient? He needs water and food at least. How do you dig a 200 foot well by yourself? Farming at the level actually needed to sustain someone year round is going to take more technology than my backyard garden. Is paying someone to come dig a well really that different than buying water? What if he was hypothetically able to purchase and store the amount of water that would be required to live the rest of his life? What happens when the well dries up? He gets someone that is on the grid to drill a new one? Doesn't that put him by proxy back on the grid?
    - icebraining 11y ago
      How do you dig a 200 foot well by yourself? You don't - you just live in a place where you don't need to dig one. For example, in my family's village in northern Spain, you have springs with reasonably clean water all year long; it's just a matter of walking a couple of miles with a jug. (Yes, I realize this is not realistic for the majority of the population. That doesn't mean "self-sufficiency" should lose its meaning)
    - 11y ago
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
> I always thought "off the grid" meant that you were completely self sufficient. What's the difference in relying on water being delivered by pipe and water being delivered by truck? I think the difference is that one is delivered by a "grid" and one isn't, hence "off the grid". You seem to have mixed that concept up with self-sufficiency. For example, someone with a diesel generator for electricity could be described as "off the grid" though they'd need to take delivery of that fuel. edit: I see this same semantic discussion took place in another thread a couple of hours before this one.

adsche 11y ago

> What's the difference in relying on water being delivered by pipe and water being delivered by truck? It's in the text if it's not obvious: One of them is a limited supply. With the implication that you are more more water conscious.

leni536 11y ago
And costs gas to be delivered. You can be more water conscious on the grid too.

Gys 11y ago

> The kitchen and water heater run on propane, which we purchase roughly once a year As in most places 'on the grid' in this world > [internet] about 18-20 Mbit down and 5-10 Mbit up As in 'by far better then most places in this world' So actually the 'off the grid' here means generating your own electricity and having a low latency (solvable by connecting directly to a nearby town that probably has a supermarket or such as well). Could be worse.

adsche 11y ago
What "off the grid" here means is defined in the very first paragraph: "The house itself is [...] completely off the grid. It has no hookups for water, gas, or electricity." Of course it could be worse, but why should it have to? EDIT: Here you go: ><((((*>
- mike-cardwell 11y ago
  "No hookups for water, gas, or electricity." So if I take my house in the middle of a city, get water delivered in containers, install solar panels and use my fireplace for cooking, I am now "completely off the grid" ? How about if I just eat out every day? Am I still off the grid? Should I disconnect my landline and just use a mobile phone instead?
  - shard 11y ago
    To me, off the grid refers to not being connected to the electric grid, with the broader meaning of not being connected to any public utilities. So your scenario of a house in the city getting wafer from delivery, electricity from solar, and firewood for cooking would be in my opinion "off the grid".

profsnuggles 11y ago

What is your definition of off the grid? I can't help but think you are being pedantic here. He mentions he could dig a well, but it's more cost effective to have water shipped in. As far as Internet access I'm sure that he needs it for his job so he can afford to purchase things like water or pay property taxes. At some point you have to interface with the rest of society, it is impossible for an individual to be 100% self sufficient.

mike-cardwell 11y ago
I don't think I'm being pedantic when he says he is "completely" off the grid. If you're going to claim to be "completely" off the grid, then you should be completely self sufficient. Re digging a well. Is your definition of "off the grid" related to how much something costs? If it costs too much, we'll just pretend it's not included in the definition?
- profsnuggles 11y ago
  How would he be completely self sufficient? He needs water and food at least. How do you dig a 200 foot well by yourself? Farming at the level actually needed to sustain someone year round is going to take more technology than my backyard garden. Is paying someone to come dig a well really that different than buying water? What if he was hypothetically able to purchase and store the amount of water that would be required to live the rest of his life? What happens when the well dries up? He gets someone that is on the grid to drill a new one? Doesn't that put him by proxy back on the grid?
  - icebraining 11y ago
    How do you dig a 200 foot well by yourself? You don't - you just live in a place where you don't need to dig one. For example, in my family's village in northern Spain, you have springs with reasonably clean water all year long; it's just a matter of walking a couple of miles with a jug. (Yes, I realize this is not realistic for the majority of the population. That doesn't mean "self-sufficiency" should lose its meaning)
  - 11y ago

ZeroGravitas 11y ago

> I always thought "off the grid" meant that you were completely self sufficient. What's the difference in relying on water being delivered by pipe and water being delivered by truck? I think the difference is that one is delivered by a "grid" and one isn't, hence "off the grid". You seem to have mixed that concept up with self-sufficiency. For example, someone with a diesel generator for electricity could be described as "off the grid" though they'd need to take delivery of that fuel. edit: I see this same semantic discussion took place in another thread a couple of hours before this one.