3 ms·

> It will save you work in the long run That's the biggest lie of them all. And maintenance? No one does that, they do re-writes. How many hours have I wasted

by imsteve 19y ago

> It will save you work in the long run That's the biggest lie of them all. And maintenance? No one does that, they do re-writes. How many hours have I wasted on this joke of not using tables?

cedsav 19y ago
I'm sorry you haven't seen the light yet, brother :-)
run4yourlives 19y ago
Have you ever operated a website with over a hundred pages? Just curious. And as far as hours wasted, having coded both ways, and originally viewing css as stupid and more work, I can now code a website in half the time using it than tables. In fact, when I'm just hacking something quick, it's great not to bother with any layout at all and just come back to it when I have the time. You can't do that with tables.
- mrtron 19y ago
  I was a lead developer on a massive website... If you are a programmer on a large site you won't touch the design. It will be done by a skilled designer, or designing firm. You won't care how its done whatsoever. There is a lot more to say here...but basically you won't touch the design. Or want to. Or care how its done :)
  - run4yourlives 19y ago
    Which is why you shouldn't be using HTML to "present" data. You do exactly this when you attempt to use tables for things other than tabular data.
  - sbraford 19y ago
    Boy, would I love to never have to think of XHTML/CSS. The reality has always been quite different. At least churning out valid XHTML+CSS from Photoshop designs has now become a commodity business: http://onwebapps.com/39-photoshop-psd-to-xhtml-css-services/ http://onwebapps.com/39-photoshop-psd-to-xhtml-css-services/
- Xichekolas 19y ago
  Who maintains 'hundreds of pages' of HTML? Don't you offload everything into templates or dynamically generate it? The last time I managed hundreds of pages of html, or even html with dynamic content spliced in, was in 2001, and that was against my will. A quick rewrite took care of that too. HTML is an output format, not a language.
  - run4yourlives 19y ago
    As an output format, it should be easily altered to display in various forms. CSS with semantic HTML achieves this, embedded presentation does not.
    - imsteve 19y ago
      > achieves this The hell it does... Not to mention that separating the two is such a futile waste of time in so many cases.

by imsteve 19y ago

> It will save you work in the long run That's the biggest lie of them all. And maintenance? No one does that, they do re-writes. How many hours have I wasted on this joke of not using tables?

cedsav 19y ago

I'm sorry you haven't seen the light yet, brother :-)

run4yourlives 19y ago

Have you ever operated a website with over a hundred pages? Just curious. And as far as hours wasted, having coded both ways, and originally viewing css as stupid and more work, I can now code a website in half the time using it than tables. In fact, when I'm just hacking something quick, it's great not to bother with any layout at all and just come back to it when I have the time. You can't do that with tables.

mrtron 19y ago
I was a lead developer on a massive website... If you are a programmer on a large site you won't touch the design. It will be done by a skilled designer, or designing firm. You won't care how its done whatsoever. There is a lot more to say here...but basically you won't touch the design. Or want to. Or care how its done :)
- run4yourlives 19y ago
  Which is why you shouldn't be using HTML to "present" data. You do exactly this when you attempt to use tables for things other than tabular data.
- sbraford 19y ago
  Boy, would I love to never have to think of XHTML/CSS. The reality has always been quite different. At least churning out valid XHTML+CSS from Photoshop designs has now become a commodity business: http://onwebapps.com/39-photoshop-psd-to-xhtml-css-services/ http://onwebapps.com/39-photoshop-psd-to-xhtml-css-services/
Xichekolas 19y ago
Who maintains 'hundreds of pages' of HTML? Don't you offload everything into templates or dynamically generate it? The last time I managed hundreds of pages of html, or even html with dynamic content spliced in, was in 2001, and that was against my will. A quick rewrite took care of that too. HTML is an output format, not a language.
- run4yourlives 19y ago
  As an output format, it should be easily altered to display in various forms. CSS with semantic HTML achieves this, embedded presentation does not.
  - imsteve 19y ago
    > achieves this The hell it does... Not to mention that separating the two is such a futile waste of time in so many cases.